Checklist for Writing Worship Songs

David Zimmer: Hello and welcome to the Sound plus Doctrine Podcast. My name is David Zimmer.

Bob Kauflin: My name is Bob Kauflin. What a joy to be together. Good morning. What a joy to be together.

DZ: It is a great joy to be together. And we are talking about a topic today that I love, and I also know you love it as well.

BK: Well, I do. Why don’t you introduce it, since you sound like you love it more than I do, and I love it quite a bit.

DZ: Well, as you can see by the title, a checklist for writing worship songs. So very, very carefully chosen words on that one. Not just writing songs, because that would be a different checklist. Some things would be similar, but writing worship songs. The reason, like, we chose this topic today is that we’re constantly having conversations with people who are asking us, how do you think through this? How do you guys do it in Sovereign Grace music? And how long have you done it? And what kind of, like, tips do you have and how can you help me? And I think a lot of people are either wanting to grow in this department. They don’t really have much experience.

BK: I will have someone come up to me every so often, just say, hey, how do you write songs? You know? And I’m saying, well, how many have you written? And say, none. Okay, okay, well, that’s where we start.

DZ: That’s where we start. You need songs or we have a group of people that they. They’ve been writing songs for a while. You know, and, like, typically the advice to them is, yeah, keep writing.

BK: Yes.

DZ: You know, just keep writing.

BK: Huge.

 

DZ: But they say, okay, yes, I am writing. I want to write as much as I can. Can you help me? Do you guys have, like, anything that you talk about with your songwriters? And we do you put this list together. And I think it’s been very helpful for us to think through when we get together on our writer’s retreats. We have a lot of really seasoned writers on our retreats, but we still instinctively go back to this list. So that’s kind of what we wanted to share today and talk about.

BK: Yes. And I should also mention we did a previous podcast just called Should I Be Writing Songs? So if you haven’t listened to that, that might be a good one to sample, to listen to. And then this checklist came out of an actual songwriting camp that we did where of writers who weren’t as seasoned and just kind of pulling together some of the common things that writers tend to do with.

DZ: Yes.

BK: So we hope this is helpful. It’s a checklist. It’s not like, you know the way to write a hit worship song.

DZ: Right. Which don’t do that.

BK: Yeah. That’s not our goal. And we really want to serve those who just want to become better at songwriting. We’ll frequently have people ask us, hey, can you help me become a better songwriter? First thing I do is send them to the sovereigngracemusic.com site, where if you look under training and I think conferences and topic songwriting, we have like 20 resources there, 20 messages that have been given in breakouts over the year at Worship God, over the years at Worship God conferences. So that’s just a lot of resources that we have provided. I know others have provided things as well.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: But that’s where I usually send them.

DZ: Yeah, that’s great. So I mentioned there’s two categories. One are people that are just getting into songwriting, and the second one are people who have been writing for a while and just need to grow. I think this checklist can serve both. But I just quickly want to talk about the first category. How do I get into songwriting? How do I even think about that? I think just briefly, I wanted to share, and I know you have so many thoughts about this, but how do you grow lyrically? How do you grow melodically? You know, I would say growing lyrically is if you’re writing corporate worship songs, you need to be in the scriptures. You need to be obviously in the Bible. That’s where we’re drawing from. But also books that are serving you to be in the Word and drawing from the Word. And a lot of poetry we write and songs we write just have to come through living in the Word. That’s our source. So you have to marinate in that. You have to sort of sponge that.

BK: Yes.

DZ: And then how do I grow melodically? Well, you need to be listening to music. Like, you need to be sponging melodies.

DZ: Well, stealing. Steal like an artist.

BK: What does that mean that’s a great.

DZ: Well, that’s a book that we actually mentioned on the Josh Scott podcast that we did with him, just about how there’s no original ideas.

BK: That’s true.

DZ: We’re just stealing, but we’re changing it in a way that we make it our own. And so those are just the two categories, I would say. And if you want to grow lyrically, not only being in the word, but I think, like being in old hymns.

BK: Old hymns and great modern hymns. Great modern songs that you really value and you think, okay, there’s substance here.

DZ: Yes.

BK: I mean, there are so many songs being written. I don’t know if we mentioned this on a podcast or not, but somewhere between three to five thousand songs are being uploaded. Worship songs are being uploaded every year. That’s a lot of songs. So among those songs, there are ones that just stand out for their clarity, for their creativity, for their biblical faithfulness. So you find songs like that, and we’ll be mentioning some on this podcast. Study them.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: You know, think about, okay, if I had this line, what would my next line be? And then see what they wrote. And to go, oh, okay, that, you know, I see why that’s better usually than what I thought of.

DZ: Well, and because I think writing lyrics, it’s so hard to be fresh and to be, you know, to say the same thing we’ve been saying in unique ways. So I think ways to do that are taking, like, public domain hymns, just the lyrics, which you can find on the internet, you can find in hymn books, and trying to come up with your own melodies, letting the lyrics be the structure to the song.

BK: That’s really.

DZ: I think that’s really helpful in writing melodies. And then you can take those lyrics and you can find a new creative way to say that.

BK: Yes.

DZ: So I think for beginners, like, I just want to encourage you, like, start writing poetry. You know, try to find. Try to find, you know, what is it called? The beat of the lyrics. Yeah.

BK: The meter.

DZ: The meter. Yeah. And. Yeah. Try to find a consistent pattern and stick with it.

BK: Yes. Which we’re going to get into.

DZ: Yeah, we will.

BK: Before we dive in, I want to say two things. One is just starting with Psalm 45:1. it’s to the choir master, according to lilies, a mask of the sons of Korah. A love song. So it’s a love song for the king, but this is how it starts out. “My heart overflows with a pleasing theme. I address my verses to the king. My tongue is like the pen of a Ready scribe.” That should be our attitude when we’re thinking about writing songs.

 

DZ: Yeah.

BK: My heart overflows with a pleasing theme. It’s not just, oh, I have nothing to say. I gotta write a song. What should I do? No, you should be already moved by what you want to write about. It’s an overflow. I address my verses to the king. Who we’re writing to primarily is the Lord.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: We’re saying, lord, I want to do these. I want to write this song in a way that honors you. And then my tongue is like the pen of a ready scribe. Like, it takes work. It’s just gonna take work. And broadly speaking, worship songs are very defined, congregational worship songs. Now, if you’re an artist, and this is totally fine, you’re writing songs that you like to perform. You like people to listen to. That’s great. You can do that in a way that honors the Lord. But when you’re writing songs for a church to sing, you’re writing songs that they should sing. That refers to the truth, the content, and that’s the head aspect of what we do. You should write songs that they want to sing. That’s the heart. They are drawn to them. You don’t have to convince them to like it, to sing it. They hear it, they go, oh, I want to sing that. That’s the heart. And then you want to write songs that people can sing. That’s the hands. That’s the skill, and that requires some crafting. And a lot of times, if we just write from our heart, just, hey, this is what I feel like.

BK: Either it’s too boring or it’s too crazy.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: So it is a real balance of those three things to keep in mind.

DZ: Yeah. And I think in those three categories, a lot of people write within a category that’s perceived as want to sing, and they don’t have the other two categories.

BK: Yeah, that’s good.

DZ: Should and can. And here’s what I mean by that. A lot of songwriters who are trying to write worship songs in their congregations. Their congregations want to sing them because it’s you and they love you.

BK: “Oh, Teddy wrote a song”

DZ: They’re so excited to support you.

BK: Yes.

DZ: But you want to be crafting songs that they should sing. And then here’s the hardest category. Can sing because people will want to sing it to support you, but can they sing it consistently? Well, then you’re talking about a broad range of ages, people. And so in sovereign race music, trying to nail all three of these categories is a challenge, but it’s A challenge worth pursuing. Pursuing, absolutely. Because we want an 8 year old to latch onto it and an 80 year old to latch onto it. Not just melodically, lyrically, but thematically.

BK: Yes.

DZ: So those are just great categories. As you’re thinking through this.

BK: It’s a challenge, but that’s why we do it.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: All right, so your checklist. We’re 10 minutes in. We’re just getting to the checklist. That’s all right.

DZ: We’ll speed through it. Yeah.

BK: First, is this what I’m writing, and you kind of alluded to this earlier, is what I’m writing faithful to God’s Word. In his book, Godward Life Part 2. Book 2, he did two volumes. John Piper writes about the importance of artists not thinking themselves as the creators, the innovators. We’re not making stuff up. We are looking at the great objective truth of God himself. We’re looking at what he said, what he’s done, who he is, Just from all different perspectives, we see it. Particular truth. We keep staring, we keep looking, we keep thinking, meditating. Then when we see something clearly, that’s what we write about. It’s a responsibility, it’s a stewardship, to show that God’s God, we’re not. So being filled with the word can’t emphasize it enough. It’s going to shape how you write what you write, what you think of lines that you’ll think, well, that’s okay. Is it really okay? Cause a lot of songs you’ll run across lines that are just kind of unclear. And if you’re being faithful to God’s word, you’re wanting it to be clear.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: You’re not wanting to leave people with confusion. You know, Jesus came to bring us out of darkness to light. We don’t want our songs to reverse that process. And not just having biblical phrases, but there’s a distinction between a song being theologically aware and theologically driven. And this is the difference. Theologically aware means you have phrases that are in the Bible, phrases that Christians might be familiar with, maybe even non Christians might be familiar with, but they’re not necessarily joined to the story of the Bible, the redemptive historical plot of the Bible, where we have a holy God created us in his image. We chose to rebel against him. He promised that he would send a savior. He did, over hundreds of years, prepare the way for the Savior to be born, who lived a perfect life, who died a substitutionary death, receiving God’s wrath in our place, rose from the dead, ascended to his Father’s right hand, is now reigning and interceding for us is one day returning for a people, a bride that he redeemed. That’s a story, and we want our songs to fit into that story and not just be an emotional high for a moment that we can kind of get people excited about.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: So that’s what I mean by being faithful to God’s Word.

DZ: Yeah, that’s great. And I think one area of faithfulness to God’s Word is the specificity of God’s Word.

BK: Yes.

 

DZ: So we’ve mentioned that a couple times in here on this podcast. But we need songs of specificity. We need songs. And what I mean by that is we need songs that aren’t just broad categories of, you know, he parted the sea for me or he opened the door for me or whatever that. Whatever that thought is. We need songs that talk about his wisdom, his justice, his sovereignty, his wrath. His wrath. His gentleness is graciousness is goodness.

BK: Yeah.

DZ: Like you said, as you’re looking at it, it’s like a diamond you’re just looking at from different angles, but you’re all seeing the same thing at the.

BK: Same time, and it’s glorious. We will never run out of songs to sing about the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. We will always have more. There will always be more to be written. I mean, we will run out of songs in the sense of there’ll always be more that need to be written.

BK: Yeah.

BK: So if you’re wanting to write songs, we say amen. Amen. Keep going for it. Number two, is it clear what you’re trying to say overall? So this is the lyric section that we’re talking about. Is it clear what you’re trying to say overall? And in each section of the song? This is. As we look at or hear songs by new writers, inexperienced writers, this is probably one of the biggest misses in terms of each verse saying something specific. Now, remember when City of Light, some of the guys from City Alight, came to the Worship God conference, I think it was in 22, and Johnny Robinson was explaining how they put together their songs. And they might say, verse one, it’s about this. Verse two, it’s about this. Verse three, it’s about this. And I thought that’s just really helpful, you know, as you look at your song that you’ve written, can you sum up each verse in a sentence or phrase?

DZ: Yeah. Good.

BK: Or all the words just kind of strewn together. Because we sometimes want to just have a song so bad, and we just put words out on it, and it’s okay to do that as long as you know those are just filler words.

 

DZ: Yeah. And it feels like a lot of songwriting is just like an outflow of my. It’s like the outcry of my heart and just all the things I’ve ever thought about the Lord I put in this one song. And it’s. You know, it’s. It takes years to figure that out, but to figure out that you’re not trying to write the song that encapsulates every thought.

BK: Yes. Yes.

DZ: You’re just trying to write the song that. That encapsulates that thought. And I think a lot of songwriters, experienced or inexperienced, hold on to songs so tightly, and I want to encourage you. Let them go. Let it just be that thing. Because we actually need more songs that just say that thing. Really good. Really well, not everything.

BK: Yeah. So I have a bunch of songs here if you’re watching on YouTube. His mercy is more. That came from a Spurgeon quote where Matt Boswell read it. Our sins are many. His mercy is more. That’s a great song. And I think, as Matt, who said, once you get the title, you have like a bulk of the majority of your song done. I mean, you have a lot of your song done. Why? Well, because it’s a specific thing that you’re trying to say.

BK: So it starts with what love could remember. So it’s all about God remembering our sins. No wrongs we’ve done Omniscient all knowing he counts not their sum Thrown into a sea without bottom or shore the sea of forgetfulness Our sins are many his mercy is more. Verse 2. What patience would wait. Okay, so first we talk about memory. Now we’re talking about patience. As we constantly roam Father so tender is calling us home he welcomes the weakest, the vilest, the poor. It’s all about his patience.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: Then they get to the course. All of those lead to the course. Praise the Lord. His mercy is more Stronger than darkness New every morn. And then that line again. Our sins there are many. His mercy is more then the final verse. And this is what, in sovereign grace, we always ask, can we find a place for this kind of verse? He talks about where that mercy came from.

DZ: Yeah, yeah.

BK: It’s specific. What riches of kindness. So first, the memory. He’s forgotten our sins. He doesn’t remember them anymore. Second, his patience. Third, his kindness. How did he show that? Well, this is how he shows love for us. While we were still sinners. Christ died for us. But this is what it says. That’s scripture. This is what the song says. His blood was the payment, his life was the cost. We stood neath a debt we could never afford Jesus paid it for us Our sins are many his mercy is more. I mean, that’s. I remember the first time I heard that song, just thinking, that’s brilliant. Why? Well, you know exactly what everything is saying.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: And why it is saying it the way it is.

DZ: Right. I would say you’re absolutely right. I completely agree. I would say the one exception to that maybe is if you were trying to write a song based on, like, a specific psalm.

BK: Oh, yeah.

DZ: Because the psalmist, they would do that. I’m just thinking about some unchanging God songs that we had on that record where you’re talking about God’s provision in the first verse, but maybe you’re talking about the enemies against us.

BK: Yes.

DZ: In the second verse. It’s still staying within the theme.

BK: Yes.

DZ: But it’s a different perspective. So I think that comes from.

BK: Well, we’re kind of. Yeah, that’s kind of moving into the third thing we want to talk about, which is, is there a progression to the lyrics where you’re trying to follow a psalm? And psalms don’t always follow this. Well, we don’t think it’s this, you know, clear progression. But oftentimes the more you meditate on it, the more you realize, oh, there is a progression here.

DZ: Right.

BK: Oh, this does make sense.

DZ: Right.

BK: I mean, one of the more obvious ones is Psalm 23. “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside quiet waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil.” So he leads me. He leads me. And all of a sudden, I’m in the valley of the shadow of death. Like what? Well, that’s what happens to us sometimes. So. So the third thing would be, is there progression? And again, this is a common weakness. Nick Page wrote a book called years ago called Now Let’s Move Into a Time of Nonsense. He’s a British writer, and I think that was from a TV show in the uk, but he talked about fridge magnet poetry, and I think I’ve mentioned this on the podcast. It’s where you have different phrases or words and you just kind of put them up on the refrigerator however you want them.

DZ: And.

BK: And, yeah, it’s fairly fun. You can put it this way or that way. And that’s how our songs can be sometimes where you can take that line from verse two, put it in verse one, you can switch the first two lines of verse one or three, and you can just kind of mix them all up and it doesn’t make any difference.

DZ: You know, the clearest example of that is just like, AI.

BK: Yes.

DZ: It’s like plugging a song into AI. Write me a song based on God’s holiness from Sovereign grace Music.

BK: Whatever.

 

DZ: You read the lyrics, you think, oh, that rhymes. And I think, sometimes that’s people’s bar. That’s the bar of success.

BK: Oh, wow.

DZ: It’s rhyming. How it’s rhyming? Well, and so you have, like, weird grammatical sentences that don’t make sense. You have thematic sentences that don’t make sense. There is no progression. And so that’s a great way. Yeah. Jot all your thoughts down your rhyming, and then back up and go like, is this going anywhere? And when you read AI lyrics, they. They stick out like that, which is so funny.

BK: I have in front of me the song Sing, which you and Nathan wrote. Nathan Stiff. And I remember working in the first verse because we talk about songs together. Did you draw breath as the dawn awoke? And does your heart still beat? The line now is. Is the mighty word of the living God upholding you in single sing. But that’s not what it was originally. It had something to do with, is the mighty word of the living God upholding everything? I don’t know how it works.

DZ: Does the mighty word of the living God uphold all things?

BK: Uphold all things, yeah.

DZ: Then sing.

BK: So we were asking the question, is that what we want to go to?

DZ: Yeah.

BK: Because this first verse, Is it your breath?

DZ: Yes, yes, yes.

BK: And so that was progression.

BK: Just talking about, is your heart still beating? And does God uphold everything? Well, yeah. Yeah, but let’s not go there yet.

 

DZ: Yeah, Good example.

BK: Yeah. You know. So then has the Father’s love filled your longing heart with grace for every need? Come and lay your burdens at Jesus feet. And sing.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: Morning and evening, everything breathing must sing. And then the third verse has the son of. Again, this is that gospel specificity. Has the son of God died to take away your son and set you free?

DZ: Sin. Yeah.

BK: What did I say?

DZ: Your son?

BK: Has the son of God died to take away your sin and set you free? Has the conqueror trampled over death? Is Christ enthroned? Then sing. Yeah. So you know, you have a song saying, sing, sing, sing. How can you have a song that talks about singing without Talking about the most significant reason God gave us to sing.

DZ: Totally. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of this song was based on the rare drool of Christian contentment. And in that chapter, he. Yeah. Basically talks about, are you alive? Are you breathing? Do you have life? But the big. The best. The best reason, the biggest reason is that Christ has redeemed us.

BK: Yes.

DZ: So, like, that is why we don’t grumble and complain. That’s why we sing.

BK: So when you’re writing a song, again, get the lyrics down. Get it down there. But ask yourself, does that line automatically or necessarily lead to the next line? Or when you have a line, does the line before it point to it? Does it make sense? Do all the verses lead into the chorus?

DZ: Yeah.

 

BK: Cause that’s what’ll happen sometimes, too. You’ll write a song and two of the verses lead into the chorus, but one of them doesn’t.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: So you gotta change something totally. So that’s the third point. Fourth. Is this how you’d speak in normal conversation?

DZ: This is a huge category. This is such a great category. Yep. What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that?

BK: So just read the lyrics out loud and imagine yourself saying them to a friend.

DZ: Right.

BK: And you think, no, I would never talk like that. Right. Well, then why are you putting it in a song? You’re putting it in everybody’s mouth. So I wrote down some, you know, phrases. There are times when you want to say something in a more archaic way, but I just. I look unto the hills. Really?

DZ: Yeah.

BK: You do? Yeah. I mean, I would never say, “David, I was looking unto the hills the other day.” I would never say that.

DZ: Right, right.

BK: Or another one. When my prayers seem all unanswered. I mean, maybe you would say that, but I’m asking, well, were they unanswered or were they seem all unanswered? It’s just unclear. And, you know, God’s not answering my prayers might be more direct

DZ: and more emotional.

BK: For sure.

DZ: Because it’s how. Because it’s how you would have a conversation with someone.

BK: Yeah.

 

DZ: You know, and I think you need to. Again, you can’t be chained to the rhyme.

BK: That’s what I was gonna say. I think that’s why this happens so often. We end up saying things badly or a way we wouldn’t say them ordinarily because we’re trying to just get those rhymes. So that’s the next point. Is the rhyme scheme consistent? So, you know, a writer’s thinking, oh, I want my rhyme scheme to be Consistent. But then they don’t think about, does this make sense?

DZ: Right.

BK: Is this how I normally speak? You know, Tip, no one’s telling you what rhyme scheme to use. You can use A, A, B, A. Use A, B, A, B. You can use A, A, B, B. And those letters referring to the last, you know, syllable or two of the. Of the line.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: Those are what’s rhyming. You know, you can use slant rhymes. Chimes that call different things, like lord, world. Yeah, That’s a slant rhyme. Or own long. You know, it’s a similar sounding word. That’s fine if you’re intentional about it.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: But if you. If your first verse is A, A, B, A, your second verse is A, B, C, D. And you know, you’re just. You’re not being true to the pattern that you set up. This is not an unbreakable rule because there’s some really, really popular songs that break that rule. But in general, if you’re trying to write good songs, you want to force yourself into matching the rhyme scheme of the previous verses.

DZ: Yeah. And the people that are singing this, you want them to be able to immediately pick it up, you know? And I think.

BK: And rhyme helps that.

DZ: Rhyming helps that. But whenever it feels forced, people feel that.

BK: Yeah, it kind of stands out.

DZ: You feel it. It stands out. And it’s distracting. And that’s not what we want to be. We don’t want to be distracting.

BK: Hopefully not. Next one. I love this. Are you using Yoda speak?

DZ: Yeah.

BK: Wonderful. He is my savior. And, you know, we’ll write stuff like that because, you know, I praise you, oh, my maker. Wonderful. He is my savior. And you think you would never talk like that. And it sounds like Yoda.

DZ: Right.

BK: So that’s one that Nate Stiff will often point out. That’s Yoda speak. There is a time for Yoda speak, but you better make sure that it’s the right time.

DZ: Yeah. I mean, even one that I initially thought was Yet not I, but through Christ in me. I remember that bugged me for the longest time. And even when someone would, like, lead it, they would say, okay, we’re lead this song. Yet not I, but through Christ in me. And I was like, okay, first of all, change the title.

BK: Second of all, I think that song’s done quite well.

DZ: It’s done great. Second of all, like, too many words.

BK: Yeah.

DZ: You know, but what’s so. What’s so. What points to how great that song is is the meter of the lyrics work out so cleanly and evenly that it works.

BK: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I was just looking at, Come, Behold the oneness mystery. It could have been written. See the Adam, true and better. The. The. The hell that’d be prosy. The Helbot, the hellbound man, come to save full, sure and great fulfillment of the law Christ. In him we stand. I mean, you can do it. It’s just weird. Yeah, but no, you want see the true and better Adam come to save the hellbound man Christ, the great and sure fulfillment of the law. In him we stand.

 

DZ: Yeah. And just to be clear, that’s really hard.

BK: That’s really hard to do.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: We’re not telling people it’s easy. We’re just telling what to do.

DZ: Yes. Worth it, but very hard to do.

BK: Yeah. All right, number seven. Are the words too dense or thin? Another you mentioned earlier trying to say everything you’ve learned, you know, you start to write songs. Okay, I had this like 15 years of my relationship with the Lord, or maybe even three. And you say, I just want to get it out. I want to put it in there. But. And then your lyrics become like systematic theology to music. There’s no space to think about it. You’re using big theological terms, propitiation, which unless you have a real good reason, you should not use in the song. And there are some songs with that word in them, but, yeah, it’s just too dense and it’s a lot to work out as you sing it. Or they can be too thin, like you’re just not saying very much. Those can be filler words. But you want to try and go back and ask, could there be something more creative there? Yeah. Some people say hymns are too dense, and some of them are immortal. Invisible God only wise in light inaccessible, hid from our eyes.

DZ: Victorious, the ancient of days, all almighty, victorious.

BK: Your great name we praise. That’s a lot. But if you slow it down and.

DZ: It doesn’t keep us from singing it, I mean, you know, we’re gonna choose those songs because exactly what they say. But the majority of people that are writing songs that more align with sort of like, you know, sovereign grace music. Maybe Gettys maybe grew up with hymns. City Alight, they would be more inclined to put as many words as possible.

BK: Absolutely.

DZ: Into their songs.

BK: They’re gonna be too dense.

 

DZ: They’re gonna be too dense. And then they. They have like five verses.

BK: Yeah.

DZ: And you’re like, okay, cut.

BK: Yeah. When we have a four verse hymn, we’re always asking, should this be three verses? Always so always asking that, yes, Christ our wisdom we left it with four. And there’s a song on our album coming out next year that was four, and we thought this could be done in three. So it’s not always the same answer.

DZ: Yeah. Right.

BK: And part of it has to deal with progression. What is each verse saying? Is it needed those kinds of things?

DZ: I would also say, I know we’re trying to fit all of this in, but I would also say, like, the melody really also contributes to that as well.

BK: Absolutely.

DZ: If the melody is compelling, I mean, you know, In Christ Alone is a perfect example. It’s like, you don’t really think that it’s four verses.

BK: No.

DZ: It almost feels like there’s a chorus in there somewhere. Because the pacing of the melody, the pacing of the lyrics is so. It’s just so easy.

BK: And it’s only two melodic lines.

DZ: Right.

BK: That’s nearly impossible to do.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: I mean, and that was the first hymn, the first song that Stewart Town and Keith wrote, Keith Getty wrote Together, which it’s only downhill from there, which Keith has acknowledged. He said, I wrote in Christ Aloud. I just been trying to write that song ever since. And he’s done a pretty good job. Yeah. Okay, next, number eight. Are you using passive voice unintentionally? This is a line like, your face is always seen by me. Your help is always found.

DZ: Yes.

BK: At the right place. Passive voice can be just what you want to use, but a lot of times it robs the line of real force, of real power. Like when you say, let us do this. Let us really. Let’s just do it. You know, praise the name of the Lord. Let us praise the name of the Lord.

DZ: Yeah. Or, oh, man, a million just flooded my mind of that. Passive voice. It is. Who said that? That, like, don’t tell us what we’re doing. Tell us. Point us to the fact that we’re doing it together. I don’t know how to say that.

BK: But can you tell us about it? Show us.

DZ: I think that’s maybe it. Instead of saying, like, let us lift our voice or whatever. Just lift your voice.

BK: Go ahead and lift your voice. So passive voice, just words that make it sound like we’re not really serious about this, but. But we’ve put those in songs all the time. They’re not always wrong, but just be intentional about it.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: And then number nine, as far as lyrics, do pronouns have an antecedent? This is just. This is not wrong. But so often in congregational worship songs, we start off with pronouns and we don’t know who we’re talking about. Yeah. So just.

DZ: I love you. You are.

BK: Yeah. You are. You are. You are. Again, it’s not wrong. And you might say in the chorus who this is, but it’s just something to think about.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: All right, let’s see if we can’t talk about music. Is the melodic and song structure easy to follow? That would be a great. I love it when songwriters are trying to be creative, but it’s like you have a four verse, a four line verse, Every line is different.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: If the song is Be thou my vision, it’s great. It works. It’s been around for centuries. It works. Your song. Probably not. So just be aware that you want to have something that’s easy to follow.

DZ: Yes.

BK: Easy to pick up.

DZ: Yeah. Simplicity.

BK: Did you say something about that?

DZ: No, I just.

BK: Simplicity is the prosody. Right. Prosody is where the emphasis of the lyrics matches the emphasis of the tune. So come behold the wondrous mystery. O Lord, my rock and my redeemer. O Lord, my rock and my redeem. You wouldn’t want to say my redeemer and my rock..

DZ: You would be so shocked to see how many songs we hear that do that. And it’s hard because in your mind, in your mind you feel like this works. Like this makes sense to me. And it isn’t until you’re bringing it in front of a couple other people where they go, I don’t know if I would put that emphasis on that syllable.

BK: Yeah, so we’ll just leave that. There are melodic and. Or rhythmic motifs repeated. So that is something that, when you’re starting out writing songs or even if you’ve been writing for a while, you can think, oh, I gotta be creative. I don’t want repetition. I think we would fall prey to this at times. But melodic and rhythmic repetition can be so helpful.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: In life and death. Christ alone. Christ alone.

DZ Same melody.

BK: Confidence. Da da da da da da da. Yeah. It just helps you latch on right away.

DZ: I love that you went to Christ for hope and life and death. Because I was going to sing Baby Shark, but I didn’t.

BK: My choice was better.

DZ: but I didn’t know if I could do that if we’re on YouTube, you know, for. For rights problems. But yeah, I mean, so, you know, melodically. I, I just. A couple thoughts on this. I love pentatonic melodies.

BK: Yeah. Da da da da da. That’s pentatonic.

DZ: Yeah. So it’s.

BK: They’re.

DZ: They’re very easy to. If you don’t want to know what a pentatonic Melody is go to a piano and play the five black notes.

BK: It’s like, oh, nice.

DZ: That is. Those melodies are. I mean, classic hymn melodies and very easy to sing. Very Amazing Grace. Pentatonic.

BK: Well, the opening of In Christ Alone is pentatonic, right?

DZ: Yes. Right. Yeah. And so trying to write that. Sing. Was the verses pentatonic? Another quote that I heard someone say was, you know, if you’re playing a song and you’re trying to work out the melody and the lyrics, stop playing the instrument.

BK: Yes.

DZ: Just sing at acapella. And could it be sung in a rugby arena?

BK: Nice.

DZ: Like, could be sung in a soccer stadium.

BK: I’ve never been to a rugby arena.

DZ: Yeah. Could it be sung in an arena without any instruments? It really quickly determines how singable is your melody.

BK: Yeah. Yeah. So this is number four in the music section. Is the range too wide? So there’s a lot of conversation about this. We were just on a Spanish songwriter retreat this year, and we had an interesting conversation about how in Spanish context, sometimes in gospel context, black gospel, the men and the women will kind of join together. Women will sing low, men will sing high and kind of sing in the same octave, which typically we don’t do.

DZ: Right.

BK: And so when I talk about. So there will be exceptions to this.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: Talk about range. Generally you’re talking from a low A to a high C or D, where most people in your congregation will feel comfortable singing. Yeah, that’s. I mean, we’ve talked about that. It has to do with where does the song hang out as well. So it’s not just a range issue. It’s how long does it stay low? How long does it stay high.

DZ: Yes.

BK: So again, in Christ Alone, we do that in D and E, which makes the entire range an A to an E. Da, da da, da da da.

DZ: But I mean, you’re Hit it once by that point.

BK: That’s right. So be aware of your range if you can. I mean, sometimes we’ll change a melody to minimize the range. Just bring it in a little bit.

DZ: Definitely.

BK: And then five. Are the chords fresh? It’s amazing how a good harmony will just bring new life to a song.

DZ: Totally.

 

BK: Just fresh harmony. Play your melody. Just try different chords.

BK: Ask someone else to play different chords. Play it in a different key.

BK: Can. Can force you to discover harmonies that you wouldn’t have found otherwise.

DZ: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that helps if you’re playing the piano, just shifting keys. But I also really love, you know, if you’re a guitar player, different shapes and moving the capo. Around Trying it in different hand positions. Actually can inspire your melody in different ways.

BK: Yes. And if you tend to move a lot of chords, put a lot of chords in there, try slowing it down half. Do half as many chords or in one space, just leave the chord. That can really change the song.

DZ: Yeah.

BK: All right, then the last three we’ve got music and lyrics together. Is the metrical pattern consistent from verse to verse? We’ve kind of talked about that. That means it’s not that you can’t add syllables or take away syllables, you know, pickups in a song as you go, but it’s really helpful to try and match what you did in the first verse. In the second and third verse.

DZ: It’s very helpful. And again, remember, in congregations, consistency is key. I know we’re trying to throw all this in, but I want to share this example because I think this will be helpful.

BK: Great. Just don’t play anything.

DZ: I won’t. For writers, I think this will be really helpful. So taking the song. I heard Johnny Robinson talking about this and at a conference.

BK: Johnny Robinson of City Alight.

DZ: Of City Alight. And he talked about how we like to match old hymns. And so taking the. Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus. I’m going to just give you the first verse. Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus. That’s eight syllables. Just to take him at his word. Seven just to rest upon his promise. Eight just to know. Thus saith the Lord. That’s seven. If you look at their song, it was finished upon that cross. City of Light. How I love the voice of Jesus. 8. On the cross of Calvary 7 he declares his work is finished. 8 he has spoke this hope to me. 7.

 

BK: Is that stealing?

DZ: 8, 7, 8, 7. No, I think what that’s doing is finding a pattern that clicks and that really can serve you as you’re writing songs. Hey, pull from songs that are really successful.

BK: Yes. Yes. And the hymns are generally very successful. So that takes writing down what you want to put thinking it’s good and then going back and just checking it. Is that the same number of syllables here?

BK: It will just help your people sing this song more easily. Are there creative elements, moments? And again, you may have think the song’s done. I can’t. There are a number of songs I’ve been a part of where we just change one line.

DZ: Yep. Right.

BK: Just change the melody in one space. We were writing, I think, well, Christ our wisdom.

BK: Which was pretty straight. So we changed that to which just gives a little more. And then the Top part was change it to. It was just a little lift. But those little things, they make a difference. They make it special.

DZ: Totally.

BK: So just. Just look for adding those special moments harmonically, melodically, lyrically. And then this last one, we’re going to end here. Does the song move you?

DZ: Right?

BK: I mean, you should start at that place.

DZ: Totally.

BK: Does the song move you? You should be moved by what you’re writing about. Don’t hope the song will stir you to the place where you’re finally moved. But at the end, when you think the song is done, are you affected by it?

 

DZ: Yeah.

BK: Are there moments when you are more struck by the glory of God, God and his word in the face of Jesus Christ, what he’s done, what he said, who he is, than you are by your song? Yeah, because that’s where we want to bring people to.

DZ: Absolutely.

BK: So it is. It’s not just a throwaway. Oh, yeah. Do you like it?

BK: And some people have the problem where they just like everything they do, and that’s really not a great question.

DZ: Everything moves them.

BK: Yes, that’s right.

DZ: And so it’s really hard to bring it to someone else. But, no, I do think that’s a very important category. We’re not. We’re not writing songs. We’re not writing songs primarily so people can sing them or so that people know them.

BK: To be really popular.

DZ: Yes. We’re writing songs because we love the Lord. It’s like. And, you know, and. And we want to find a way to allow others to join in on that. And I know we’ve. We’ve said a couple times on this podcast that this is hard to do. This is hard to do. And just to, like, encourage writers who are listening to this, there are songs that you probably sat down and wrote in 20 minutes, and you love it. You love how it came out. And there are other songs that take six years. You know, I just think, like, Sing, you know, was written very quickly, but it is finished. That I wrote with Nate took six years. It just takes time when you are trying to get it right. And so be patient with yourself and bring others into the process.

BK: Amen. Amen. And the Lord, the Father wants the Son to be glorified. The Spirit wants the Son to be glorified. We were created in God’s image to have a relationship with him, to reflect him. And songs is one of the ways we do that. So it is worth the effort, it is worth the hours, it is worth the sweat. It is worth the disappointment. You know, all of us have written songs that no one will ever hear. Even some of your. And shouldn’t. Even some of the great, you know, the best songwriters, they have plenty of songs that. That no one’s ever heard.

DZ: Right.

BK: But it’s okay because my heart overflows with a pleasing theme. And I’m. I’m gonna write that theme whether anybody hears it or not. So we hope this has been helpful to you. We’ll put a list of the. These. These resources.

DZ: Yeah. And then checklists. Yeah, we’ll leave that for you. And I think this is probably our longest podcast.

BK: I think it is.

DZ: Hopefully it’s a resource to you. We love to do this and we love that you are a part of this podcast with us. So thank you.