David Zimmer:. Hello and welcome to the Sound plus Doctrine podcast. My name is David Zimmer.
Bob Kauflin: My name is Bob Kauflin.
DZ: And we have a very special episode today. I get to say that.
BK: Yeah.
DZ: I get to say that because then you typically say, well, isn’t every episode special?
BK: Isn’t every episode special?
DZ: And then I say it is, except I think this one’s really special because today you get to share your testimony.
BK: I have a testimony, not my salvation testimony.
DZ: Yes. Not your salvation testimony.
BK: Another testimony.
DZ: But if you are… I mean, I think if you’ve listened to Sovereign Grace of music for a while, or you’ve read your book.
BK: Worship Matters?
DZ: Worship Matters. You might know a little bit of this testimony. I just thought it would be a wonderful opportunity for you to share more in detail about what God was doing in your life. Again, post salvation. It’s not that we get saved and then everything’s great till the end.
BK: 22 years post salvation. So, I’ll be Christian for 22 years. So, recently at our Young Adults Conference, the Sovereign Grace Young Adults Conference relay, one of the speakers, Jared Mellinger asked me if he could interview me for 15 minutes after his message about what I went through. And so we did. I thought, this is great. I’d love to have that opportunity. I was surprised at how many people came up to me afterwards and said, I so identify with what you talked about, anxiety, depression, fear of man, panic, all those things. And it just, I think we talked about it after that. It just, wow. Maybe we should do this, have this conversation. And it’s kind of a follow up to Mckenzie’s, the interview we did with my daughter Mckenzie, just on the things she went through and just the acknowledgement that there can be a temptation in the church to think, well, Jesus saves us, and then we’re good to go. I mean, we may do little sins again, but if you commit a sin, big sin, you’re out. You’re done.
BK: And I mean, there are nuances to that for sure. But we can be afraid to talk about struggles, challenges, trials, sins for fear of what people will think of us. I was talking to someone not too long ago who was in persistent sin and feared telling anyone because they would lose their job. And you know what? That’s not a good reason not to confess your sin. You want to walk in the light. That’s what God tells us to do. That’s what Jesus came to enable us to do. And I realized that we doubt often that Christians should go through troubles. We go through troubles, it’s like…
DZ: It’s promised.
BK: Yeah, that’s right. Like the gospel’s good for the good times. Things are going well, health’s good. My friends are treating me well. Things are going well at work or school or with the family or whatever. And I think that’s when our faith is good. But if you get cancer, if people start not liking you, if you have a horrible relational challenge, if you lose your job, well, then it’s like, oh no. Where’s God? Well, he’s in the same place he has always been. He’s sitting on his throne and he’s doing exactly what he pleases. And apparently, one of the things he wants to do is work with your life. And I’ll just read this this morning in my devotion, Psalm 57, where David is in a cave. He’s fleeing from Saul. He says, “Be merciful to me oh God, be merciful to me for in you my soul takes refuge. In the shadow of your wings I’ll take refuge till the storms of destruction pass by. I cry out to God most high, to God who fulfills his purpose for me.”
BK: What I love about that is the graphic way David describes what he is going through, storms of destruction. And as I share about what I went through, it felt to me like storms of destruction. And you might be going through something now that feels like storms of destruction. What do I do? I cry out to God most high. So what I’m gonna be talking about is how I came into this season and cried out to God and some of the lessons that I learned from it. And to prepare for this, I went back to an article I wrote for desiring God called The Year My World Fell Apart. I think I wrote it about six or seven years ago. But a number of people have talked to me about that. So we’re just putting in another form. Gonna fill out some of that and just describe some of the things I went through. So starting?
DZ: Yeah. Go ahead.
BK: Okay. I was in a church plant in Charlotte, North Carolina. And a pastor, one of two pastors. And I was just about to turn 39, happily married, five kids. Still am happily married, by the way but I have six kids, served as an associate pastor, growing church. We were two years into the church plan. My health was good. I enjoyed an active life. I had ministry opportunities abounding, and everything looked good on the outside. I mean, if you knew me at that time, you would’ve said, this guy’s got it made.
BK: But on the inside it was a very different story. In January of ’94, Julie and I went over to a friend’s house for dinner. And in the middle of that dinner, I don’t know how to describe it other than say that just I cracked. I suddenly felt disconnected from my past, my present, and my future, my present surroundings. And I just had no idea what was going on. So I went into the bathroom, prayed, and just was just trying to get a grip on reality ’cause I couldn’t hold onto my thoughts. I remember going home that night and just listening to worship music over and over to just try and calm my soul, just try to relax. So that began a season of about two years, characterized by intense fear, hopelessness that was predominant, depression, detachment anxiety and an emptiness.
BK: Those were my daily companions for about two years, a little less at the end of that two years. But that was what I was living with. And again, I was a pastor and everything just seemed fine. But I lost my ability, at least for that season, to think clearly. Although some people think I don’t think very clearly now, but this was different. Thoughts began racing through my mind that I couldn’t stop. When people would say, I can’t control my thoughts. I would say, yes, you can just control them. Just stop thinking that and start thinking the right thing. I couldn’t do that. Panic attacks came regularly. I remember certain moments when I was talking to someone like right now, and I thought, you know what? In a few minutes I’m gonna be on the floor in a fetal position, ’cause I just cannot take these chaos in my mind.
BK: For the initial three months, I thought I’d be dead in a few months. It was so bad. I thought that within a few months, I’d be dead. So why did I plan anything like six months out? I was gonna be dead. That’s where my mind was. And there were physical effects. A lot of times I found it hard to catch my breath. Just my arms started itching incessantly. I’m just trying to let you into what was going on. No amount of scratching relieved the sensation. Sometimes it just, I scratched it raw ’cause I could not get it to stop itching. There were times it felt like there was a 200 pound weight on my chest, and I couldn’t get it off me. And then other times I felt like this hollowness, just this emptiness like there’s nothing there. That I felt buzzing on my face at times. I’m just trying to go through all the symptoms.
DZ: Wow. Did you see a doctor for all of those injuries?
BK: Well, I did, as a matter of fact. Yeah. I thought, okay, something…
DZ: This has to be internal or something.
BK: Yeah. Something’s wrong. I knew that something’s wrong, and I was a pastor, so I thought, this should not be happening. This does not happen to pastors. That was my start. So, yeah. I went to the doctor and had all the physical stuff and the test came back. You’re fine. You’re fine.
DZ: When you heard that, did that spiral you even deeper of like, how can I be fine medically if I’m not, I’m not doing well.
BK: It did cause some confusion because everything was so physical. I did have this thing happen where when I was feeling things physically, my mind was a little clearer. And then when my physical symptoms were not so present, my mind was all confused. So it’s just kind of a back and forth. Yeah. So I tried everything, reading more scripture, praying, listening to worship music, went on a retreat. So I’ll talk more about later. We took a vacation. This was during the mid ’90s so I even took a trip to Canada with some other pastors to the Toronto Blessing. Some of listeners will know what that is, thinking, I’ll try anything.
DZ: This’ll get me.
BK: Yeah. That did not help. Thought about seeing a counselor, maybe a psychiatrist ’cause I’m aware, and I was aware that, I’ve known people with hormonal imbalances, postpartum especially, and inability to sleep, a traumatic personal history that have benefited from medical intervention. I didn’t have any of those, but I wondered maybe drugs might help get me back on my feet, and at least to a place where I can…
DZ: Normalcy something.
BK: Yeah. Think about it. And I’ve identified with various labels of that time. Like, I felt this is what a nervous breakdown is. This is what a midlife crisis is. I was 39. This is burnout. But I don’t know if I was doing that much. I mean, I was doing a lot, but I don’t know if it was that much.
DZ: It was interesting, like, ’cause you had the enough clarity to go, it’s not that.
BK: Yes. Yes.
DZ: Which is wild because you were so confused, so cloudy in the moment. But it’s almost like God kept you there without the answers intentionally.
BK: That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. I knew it wasn’t, another thing was anxiety disorder. But I was searching. I was just, it’s gotta be something. I feel a lot of people like this or with these kinds of symptoms are saying it’s gotta be something, that’s gotta be something, that’s gotta be something. But no label that I heard of address root causes. They were more symptomatic. Oh, you have an anxiety disorder. Well, why do I have the anxiety? A nervous breakdown. Well, what was breaking me down? What was I thinking that led to that? Burnout. Well, what brought about the burnout? Was it just doing things because you were doing all the same things before?
DZ: Right.
BK: And now it’s just having a really different effect on you. So what I said to myself was, okay, I’ve been preaching this gospel to people for 22 years. I’ve been a pastor for nine years, but I’d been a Christian band before that. So, basically 18 years I’ve been preaching this gospel. Either this is true or it isn’t. And if it’s true it might be what I need in my situation. So for the next two and a half years I pursued that line of thought. I didn’t go on drugs, didn’t see a psychiatrist. But I can tell you on this side of it that I thank God for what I went through. And I’ll explain more of that as I go. My wife Julie was an invaluable means of grace to me during that time, as were a few other people.
BK: And so what I wanted to do is just talk about some of the lessons I learned from that time in hopes that someone who’s listening either knows someone like this, that they’re trying to help, or you’re like this. You’re right in the midst of, I mean, you don’t have to identify with all those symptoms, but it’s a confusing time. It’s characterized by anxiety, depression, and disconnectedness. You just don’t know what’s going on. So here’s one of the lessons that I learned. About a year in, we were having breakfast, Julie and I were having breakfast with Gary and Betsy Ricucci. He’s a pastor with me now in Sovereign Grace Church, Louisville. And I was telling him what was going on and saying, man, I just wake up every day. I just feel completely hopeless. And Gary, who’s like the consummate pastor, looked at me and said, “I don’t think you’re hopeless enough.” And I thought, that’s not the answer I was expecting.
DZ: How did that feel?
BK: I was hoping you’d say something like, I’m so sorry.
DZ: A little more encouraging.
BK: Little something. Empathy, sympathy.
DZ: Had he walked through this with you? At least an awareness?
BK: That’s a great question. I think he was aware to some degree ’cause we weren’t in the same church, but this was where I was really letting him in on what was going on.
DZ: Yes. You were letting people into what was happening.
BK: Certain individuals. Yeah. And so that’s what he said, “I don’t think you’re hopeless enough. And he said, if you are completely hopeless, you would stop trying to find the answer in yourself in what you can do and you would start trusting in what Jesus has already done for you. That’s where you’d go for help. His perfect life, his substitutionary death, his resurrection. You would say, oh, there’s my hope. But you’re not doing that. So apparently you’re hoping in something else.” That’s one of the lessons I learned is we’re never without hope. We’re always hoping in something. We always have hope in something. And when we hope in things that aren’t God like our own abilities, like a preferred outcome, like our reputation, financial security, you fill in the blank. When the idols that we’ve hoped for, ’cause that’s what’s happening. It’s an idol. When the idols we hoped in don’t deliver as promised, well, then we panic or we despair or we lash out or we go numb. There’s some kind of response. Well, those are just responses. The root of it is we are trying to find hope in something other than Jesus Christ.
BK: That’s why the Psalmists talk about hoping in the Lord at least 25 times in the Psalms, David says, hope in the Lord from this time forth and forevermore psalm 131 verse three. It’s easy to hope in something other than God and the provision he’s made for us in Jesus Christ and not even know it. So that was huge. Which led to another lesson. And that is, my situation was coming more from the inside than the outside. So it felt to me very much like there’d be this depression that’s coming on me, this panic that’s coming on me. I remember one time I was driving a van full of people and I felt like my head was separating from my body. And I said, you know what? I need to stop driving. I need to just get in the back and just lie down.
BK: But it felt like something was coming on me. So I feared situations, they do something to me, or circumstances. I live with anxiety about what might happen. What I might feel. I was anxious that I’d feel anxious again. And I meet people like that. And it was God’s mercy that he showed me it wasn’t my situation that was the problem, or that people were the problem it was my responses to them. And those responses were driven by idols, two idols that I had, especially the idol of credit and the idol of control. The idol of credit was just this craving for people to think I was great, a great pastor, a great husband, a great father, a great humble person. I mean, just whatever, a great musician, a great worship leader, a great whatever.
BK: I just thought people should think I was as great as I thought I was. And when they didn’t, for a number of reasons. Some people came as part of the church plant and left and told me how poorly I had done as they left. Or when no one acknowledged my contributions or whatever, my idols were saying, why we are being served my idol of credit. So they punish me mentally, emotionally, physically. That’s what was happening. Or control. I wanted my kids to act a certain way for my life to go a certain way to know what’s going on, not to look like a fool. I don’t wanna look like I’m not in control. I hated that feeling of people around me laughing at me because I didn’t know something. Whatever it might be. I wanted to control my thoughts beyond top of things. And when I realized things weren’t in my control, like what people thought of me, I panicked. I got depressed. I got fearful, I checked out. I remember one time a couple was at our house. They were telling us we’re leaving the church. They’ve been part of the church plant. We think you’ve been heavy handed. We think you’ve been authoritarian. We think you’ve been legalistic, all this stuff. We had poured our lives into this couple. And I had to leave the room and just fell on a bed, in another room, and just cried ’cause it was so devastating. What’s that? Well, that’s the idol of control and credit being beaten. And it was, I didn’t know what to do ’cause I thought the problem was them.
BK: They were the problem. And I felt like a victim. I was the victim. And that’s, boy, we live in a culture of victimhood. It’s your fault. It’s my upbringing. It’s my parents. It’s everybody else. It’s God, everybody but me. So I felt like things were coming up on me from out there. And actually I was the one who was producing it. This was such a revelation. All my fear, all my… I mean, through my fears, through my unbelief, through my false worship, I, as Jonah 2:8 talks about those “who forsake their hope of steadfast love when they give themselves to idols.” That’s what I was doing. I couldn’t know God’s steadfast love. Jesus says in John 5:44, “how can you believe when you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God.”
BK: That’s what I was doing. So I find it hard to believe. So over time I came to see it. God was guiding the whole process so that he could turn my heart to him. And he wanted to wean me from my self idolatry so that I could find the greater joy of pursuing the glory of Jesus rather than my own. And I can say, David, what is it, 30 years later now, I love the glory of Jesus more than I ever have over my own. I still battle pride. I still want people to think well of me. But I know what I’m here for and I know who’s in control. At one point it felt like the Lord was saying, you aren’t in control of anything. It’s true for all of us.
DZ: Yeah. True.
BK: We could walk outta this building and get hit by a car driving home, have an accident. We don’t control the weather. There’s so much but God controls everything and we can trust him. So that knowledge helped me to enter into the rest that Jesus promises in Matthew 11:28, “come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” I was not lowly in heart. I didn’t wanna be lowly in heart. I wanted to have the top place. So that was another lesson, came from inside, not the outside. Here’s another thing. Ordinary means of grace are extraordinary if you know you need them. I just didn’t think I was that bad a sinner. I was in first grade there for six weeks. Then they moved me to second grade. I think ever since that time, I was thinking, you know I’m slightly above everybody else. And there’s always something just a little extra special about me. And I thought that way for years, just kind of hiding it in there. And so when I became a Christian, I mean, I was amazed that, glad that I could become a Christian, obviously. But thought, yeah, God was probably pretty happy that he got me on the team. I mean, he probably talked to the father and the son. What do you think about Bob?
BK: I think he’d be a good catch. All right. Let’s save him. I mean, that’s, I hate to say it.
DZ: Let’s give him a lot of talent and just…
BK: So yes. Yes. So, the ordinary means of grace like prayer, Bible study, Sunday meetings, fellowship, they just seemed empty because they were for people who were doing really well. And I was doing well, but now I’m not doing well. And so I don’t know what I do with them now. I’m too lost for them too, but I didn’t really think that, I didn’t think I was too lost. I just think it’s just confusing to me. So when I was doing those things, I think I was doing them with a good motive but mixed in with that was this sense of, I’m doing this because I am good. I’m a good prayer. I’m a good going to Sunday meeting person. I’m a good fellowshiper, or I’m a good, whatever. So a friend introduced me to a condensation of John Owen’s book, Sin and Temptation. And, wow. God used it to show me the pervasiveness of sin in my heart, the deception of sin in my heart, the dangers of sin in my heart, and the destructiveness of sin in my heart, that I really was a lot worse than I thought. So as I began to see that, and I’m still seeing it, but I began to see it. It just made Jesus such a bigger savior. You know when you’re pretty good, you don’t need a very big savior.
BK: So, yeah, that was huge. So one of the things that I learned from going back to what Gary had said to me, you are completely hopeless. When I would feel that, initially I would fight it, I’m not hopeless, but I began to say, I feel completely hopeless. I am completely hopeless. But Jesus died for hopeless people, and I’m one of them. I said that to myself a thousand times. Every time I’d feel this emptiness, holiness, itching, buzzing, whatever, I feel completely hopeless. You are. You are a wretched sinner without Jesus but that’s who he died for. He died for wretched sinners. Are you one? Do you want to fit into that category? Well, no, I’d rather fit into the, like, the kind of righteous, pretty good, sinners, and I just saw the Pharisee in me.
BK: It’s just like, oh, I wanna be the good, the godly, the Christian, the one everybody looks up to, and just didn’t realize what was inside my own soul. So anyway, moving this along, I began to see another lesson. I learned feelings or unreliable proofs. And by that I mean emotions are good. The Psalms show us that emotions are, that they’re what God gave them to us to show us that something’s going on. So we’re told to, that God’s presence brings joy, and that God’s promises bring comfort, and God’s provision brings satisfaction. And we see those kinds of things. But I was looking to sustained peace as the evidence that the Bible was true and found myself chasing experiences rather than Jesus.
DZ: Right. Especially if you’re coming out of such a season of confusion and anxiety. When you experience a little amount of peace, you think, that’s it. This is it. I found it. I caught it. Finally, finally I have peace.
BK: Yes. And then you begin to fear that that peace will leave.
DZ: Yeah. Yeah.
BK: And at the first sign it does, you spiral, those paths are so well worn. You just go right down. So when I was unaffected by the gospel, I began to see that other desires were at work in my heart. Selfish ambition, self atonement, works, righteousness, a love of ease. I began to see that that’s why the feelings were coming. Not just because they appeared outta nowhere, but because again, those idols were doing something. So emotions, feelings, they tell us that something’s happening, but they don’t necessarily tell us why they’re there. That’s our job. And we discover that through with the spirit’s help patiently and consistently trusting and pursuing God. When I insist on finding relief from emotional distress before trusting God, I’m living by sight, not by faith. And that’s what I was trying to do. So that’s why I think it extended for so long, for two years. It’s like, I want these feelings gone. And as just as you said, I found a little relief. So I thought, okay, great, I’m done. No, no, no, no. The work’s not done yet. God’s still doing stuff inside. So another lesson, self focus won’t ultimately defeat self sins. This was so hard.
BK: So a year in, March of 1995 I went on a personal retreat for 24 hours, came back, I was determined my problem was I’d been depending too much on my own righteousness. I needed to trust in the righteousness of Christ. So there were certain passages that I took out and said, I’m gonna memorize these. I’m gonna commit myself to this. I’m gonna do it morning and night. And Julie said, you’ve come back more bound up than when you left. Like this is not a good direction and it wasn’t funny at the time. But one reason my…
DZ: I’m sure it wasn’t.
BK: It was not funny. One reason that the dark season lasted so long was because I thought I can deal with this.
DZ: I can fix it.
BK: Yes. So not only the problem was in me, but the solution was in me.
DZ: Oh, man. I mean, who hasn’t been tempted with that?
BK: Well, probably everybody. So, what was it? It was my lack of faith. It was my legalism.
DZ: Yeah. You’ll get it. You’ll give yourself more faith.
BK: And I need to find the right combo. I need to memorize more scripture, less scripture, do more, do less, do everything, do nothing. It was just all about what I’m doing. God’s grace comes to humble needy people who never think they can deserve or earn what God gives us. It is not dependent on us. And I love what Robert Murray McShane counseled us to do. First CJ brought this quote to my attention in a sermon, all our attention “For every look itself, take 10 looks at Christ.” Man, it’s a lot better view. And so often when we think we see the problem, we just start to dig our heels in and say, okay, problem’s me, I’m gonna fix it. I’m gonna get outta here. And focusing more on yourself will never help you get rid of sins that have to do with yourself. You have to focus on Christ. So that was huge. And then another lesson, take every temptation to Christ. So that was another thing I thought, maturity was freedom from temptation, like we talked about earlier, freedom from the feelings.
DZ: Yes.
BK: That if I was truly mature, I wouldn’t be tempted in these ways anymore.
DZ: Yeah. Or to believe the lie that now that I’ve solved this, I won’t be tempted in this way anymore. I’ve conquered this. And I think it’s back to that control.
BK: Oh, yeah. I’ve controlled it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I began to see that I was responding to temptations with, again, my own resources. So that mantra I had of, you are completely hopeless, but Jesus died for hopeless people and you’re one of them. That turned my gaze, it turned my focus to Christ and what he’s done, and what he’s provided, and who he is. And that even now he’s interceding for us. And he will complete the work he’s begun, and he will ensure that we finish, that those He calls, he justifies, he justifies, sanctifies, and then glorifies. We will be glorified with him. It’s an unbreakable link in just seeing that there’s such mercy and grace in that, rather than thinking, I’ve gotta do something to get into that, I gotta figure out how I’m gonna get God to really deliver on his promises.
BK: No, Jesus is the one who made sure God delivered on his promises. Not me. So that was huge. In my discouragement, I was, oh, this is a John Owen quote. This is so helpful. “Your state is not at all to be measured by the opposition that sin makes to you, but by the opposition you make to it.” So at times the temptations would even increase. And I think, oh my gosh, I’m worse than I was before. But no, maturity is how I respond to that and who I go to in the midst of that. Just a few years ago I felt feelings that were similar to what I experienced in the mid ’90s, just an emptiness. And so what I did, I told some of the pastors I work with, I told Julie and I went to the Lord and said, Lord, this is undoubtedly the result of wanting to be thought well of, wanting people to praise me. And so I leave this in your hands. I’m gonna continue to trust you. I’m gonna focus on what Jesus has done for me. I’m not gonna worry about it. It was in a couple days as we’re gone. See, if I had known that back in the mid ’90s, it would’ve been a whole different story. We wouldn’t be doing this podcast.
DZ: But you had to go through.
BK: Well, that’s what I would want to close with. And that is, as I look back on that time, and it was rough. I mean, probably the most helpful prayer I prayed during that time was, you are God and I am not. I would begin my days like that. And wake up in the morning feeling completely hopeless. Try to think, what can I do? Can I get outta bed? Yes. Can I go to the bathroom, take a shower, brush my teeth? Yeah. Yes. Can I get dressed? Yes. Okay. I can get that far. And I remember one specific time I was just on the floor in the bathroom just saying, you are God, and I am not. You are God and I am not and just telling myself that, because it was obvious from my responses that I thought I was God. And so it was helpful just to be reminded. And looking back over those two years, some people ask, do you still go through that stuff? Yeah. I still. Do I still struggle with control of credit? Duh. Am I human? Can I fog a mirror? Yes. But it’s just a different battle because I love the glory of Jesus more than I love my own. And I have no doubt about that.
DZ: Well, and it’s made it quicker to turn from that temptation because you have had your eyes on Christ.
BK: Yes. Yes.
DZ: And you’ve experienced the joy of having your eyes on Christ.
BK: And that’s been a big change ’cause for years I would say I never want to experience that again. And that would keep me confessing my sin. I wanna pursue humility ’cause I never wanna go through that again. But it’s become more, and that, just as you’re saying that, I just realized this, it’s become more, I never wanna go through that again because I was so blind. I was so blind to the beauty in the glory of Christ. I think it’s Zephaniah 9:17, it says, “how great is his goodness, how great his beauty.” And that’s what I’ve seen. He’s that great. He’s that beautiful. He’s that glorious. And I realize that removing our difficulties and problems and temptations and trials isn’t the only way that God shows us that he loves us and that he’s good. Instead of superficial solutions or temporary solutions God actually wants to deliver us from our false idols and from our unbelief and our false hopes of ultimate salvation and satisfaction and comfort in anything but Jesus Christ. We want relief from the pain. God wants to make us like his son.
DZ: Right.
BK: We want a change in our circumstances, and I know some people who are listening to this are going through very difficult circumstances. God wants a change in our hearts. And a crucified and risen savior proves once and for all that he’s actually able to bring that about. He is actually able to do it.
DZ: Amen.
BK: And I remember at one point saying to the Lord, this is early on. If being like this for the rest of my life means that I will know you better, then leave me like this. That was the hardest prayer I’ve ever prayed. Because I knew I meant it. And even sitting right here I can feel the agony of that prayer, but I meant it, but God didn’t leave me like that. He was kind, he was merciful. He’s given me a deeper trust in his goodness. He’s given me a deeper awareness of his love. And he’s given me a more passionate love for Jesus and the gospel. And so I know better what Paul meant when he said, to live is Christ but to die is gain. And I want that for my life. I love what Paul says in Acts 20:24.
BK: “I do not account my life of any value nor is precious to myself. If only I may finish my course and the ministry that I receive from the Lord Jesus to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.” That’s what I want to do. I thought I wanted to do that 30 years ago. And I think I did, but not as much as I do now. So I thank God for what he took me through 30 years ago. It was his mercy and his grace. And I pray that anyone listening to this now who’s experiencing something of that will begin to recognize sooner than later. This is God’s mercy. He has made provision for you through the church, through his people, through prayer, through the Lord’s supper, through fellowship, through all kinds of means that he gives us, and in some cases medical means. But there’s no greater resource than the fact that he has given his son and now through the spirit’s work, we are in him, he is in us, and we have the hope of the eternal pleasures at his right hand. Knowing that it’s worth going through everything I went through. I wouldn’t wish it on anybody, but I’m so glad that the Lord took me through it.
DZ: Wow. Wow. I knew I told you this was gonna be a special episode and it was. Thank you, Bob, for sharing your testimony, and thank you for being so open and honest and vulnerable to express what you were going through. And all the glory goes to Jesus.
BK: Well, people say, you are so humble. Well, I have so much to be humble about. I mean, pursue humility as fast as you can. Don’t wait for God to humble you. He says, humble yourself under the mighty hand of the Lord. He’ll exalt you at the proper time. That’s what I wanna do. And I’d encourage you to do it, everyone to do that.
DZ: Yeah. Anyway, so thank you. Thank you for sharing your testimony, and thank you so much for listening to this podcast. We hope this is a resource to you and an encouragement to your souls.
BK: Amen. Thank you for listening to Sound Plus Doctrine, the podcast of sovereign grace music. Sovereign grace music exists to produce Christ exalting songs and training for the church from our local churches. For more information, free sheet music, translations, and training resources, you can visit us at sovereigngracemusic.org.
