David Zimmer: Hello, and welcome to the Sound Plus Doctrine Podcast. My name is David Zimmer.
Bob Kauflin: My name is Bob Kauflin. And, David, what are we talking about today?
DZ: We are talking about… Well, the title of today’s podcast is how should we think about special music on Sundays?
BK: That is a very good question.
DZ: It is a good question. I mean, you came up with it.
BK: Well, no, because people have… Been a number of places recently, and I get this question all the time.
DZ: No, we do. Yeah, we do. You’re right. I think… So many churches, and not to just, like, jump right into it, but so many churches… That’s such a unique window of time to share a special song or a special choir number or something. And either we’re so stuck in that we’ve done that forever, or we don’t ever give it any thought.
BK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DZ: And so we’re trying to talk about that today.
BK: Yeah. And the way we even phrase the question, it’s not like this is… You know, this is what you should do. It’s just, how should we think about this?
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Because a lot of people are asking that question, what do we do with it? Sometimes it seems, like, bogus? Like you just said, sometimes it just seems like just filler.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: But then there have been some great moments on Sundays. So I think the first thing we need to ask, though, is what do we mean by special? How…
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Special? Because it’s not always very special. I don’t even know what to call it. Special music, because I’ve, like, had, you know…
DZ: Right.
BK: If you talk to somebody that’s not a part of a church culture, it’s an unbeliever. Special music. Oh, really?
DZ: Oh, that’s unique.
BK: Special music.
DZ: Well, it can be unique.
BK: I mean, sometimes it’s special, but for the wrong reasons.
DZ: Totally.
BK: I think Worship Fails has a number of those.
DZ: 100%
BK: And it can be… You know, it could become just something that’s expected.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: So it’s not so special anymore.
DZ: Right.
BK: Special music. And I think what we mean by that is just something that’s not just sung by everyone in the congregation, which is the typical. Churches gather. We sing.
DZ: Right.
BK: But there is this special category when someone or some group sings to the church. So let’s talk first about, like, is that even in the Bible. Like, has God been clear on that? So the two verses we have in the New Testament, three, really, Colossians 3:16, where he says… You know, Paul, in the midst of talking about how to live a gospel driven life in a pagan culture, he says, “Let the word of Christ dwell in you, richly teaching and admonish one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” We are teaching and admonishing one another.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: So there is some kind of corporate aspect to it. We’re doing… Like, everybody’s doing this at some point. Ephesians 5:18 and 19. “Do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the spirit addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.” There it is again. Addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. The reality is, though, God doesn’t specify who exactly is doing the singing.
DZ: Right.
BK: And if you look at the Old Testament, it was largely the choirs and the priests who did the singing, not so much the congregation. It was… They were being sung too. So today it can be responsive. You know, a leader can sing something and the congregation responds. It can be a choir singing to a congregation. It could be a soloist singing to a congregation. It could be antiphonal. You know, we had the song Behold Our God. You will reign, let your glory fill. You will reign let your glory… And it could be all at once. In general, the members of the congregation are lifting up their voice in the midst of the congregation. So you have verses from the psalms, like Psalm 107:32. “Let them exalt him in the congregation of the people and praise him in the assembly of the elders.” So we’re doing this in the midst of the church, the gathered people of God.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Psalm 149:1. “Praise the Lord. Sing to the Lord a new song, his praise in the assembly of the godly!” So it seems at that point everyone’s involved in the teaching and admonishing, not just a select few. But the Bible doesn’t forbid it. God doesn’t forbid it. So what are some not so good? Let’s break this down into two parts. What are some not so good reasons for special music? Can you think of any?
DZ: God. [laughter]
BK: I have some, but I’m not just jump in.
DZ: True you do. I mean, I’ve heard churches say that we’ve always done it this way. It’s always been this way.
BK: It’s part of the liturgy.
DZ: Yeah, it’s part of the liturgy. And obviously for good reason. They have good reasons of why they started it and why they’ve been doing it for years and years and years. But I think sometimes you can get caught up in just the cycle of thinking, well, yeah, so we do that, and then we go on to the next thing. And so when you’re pressed on it of why do you do that? The answer is, well, just…
BK: Just always done it that way.
DZ: Yeah. So I think… I think that’s one that I hear a lot, is that we just… We’ve always done it well.
BK: And I think that’s where the question comes from often is this doesn’t seem to be bearing much fruit in our church. And there are some side issues that have developed as a result of it, which we’ll get into. But Colossians 3:17 says that we’re to “do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” So we need to ask that question about everything we’re doing in our gatherings. I mean, we do that as a church. We regularly, as elders, ask what’s good about our meeting, what could be better? We’ve made changes in the last year that I think have made the meeting better.
DZ: Yes. That’s so true.
BK: And we’re even thinking about changes now. Just how can we… You know, not that we’re looking for the perfect liturgy, but we’re just constantly asking, how can we serve people more effectively?
DZ: Yeah. And evaluating your Sunday. I think we did a podcast on that. Evaluating your Sunday gatherings.
BK: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DZ: Or you even giving thought to, is this working?
BK: Yes. Yes. It’s blessing anyone? So another bad reason is just filling space. You know, I know a lot of people will say, well, during the offering. I was just talking to someone about this recently. Yeah, we have a special song. Does anyone listen to that song? They might be. And is that song tied to what else is going on in the meeting, or is it just a special song? Why not give announcements during that time? Why not sing a congregational song? I mean, there’s just… It can get to that place where, again, it’s just… It’s just filler. And our meetings, they’re so precious. The gatherings of God’s people are so precious. We just don’t want to be giving five minutes, even five minutes, to something that we look back on and go, “Yeah, that really didn’t help anybody.”
DZ: Yeah. We were just talking about this this morning, just in terms of like… So at Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville, we have one service on Sunday.
BK: Praise the Lord.
DZ: You could do a whole podcast on that. But we… So we have one service on Sunday. And it’s so interesting when we’ve talked about it, it’s like, every minute is special.
BK: Yeah. Yeah.
DZ: Not that…
BK: We want it to be.
DZ: You want it to be. Not that it’s not at any church. But what I’m saying is, I love that there is such a… A focus to say, man, every minute, every second counts. So if we can cut this, if we can cut time here, it affords you maybe another song.
BK: Yes.
DZ: Congregationally. Or maybe it affords you 10 minutes more in your sermon.
BK: Yes.
DZ: Or what…
BK: Yes.
DZ: Whatever you’re cutting, you’re adding. And so if you can’t cut, you can’t add. So it’s like, well, how are we evaluating this?
BK: Yes. And this is not related to the particular topic at hand, but sometimes announcements are that thing that need to be cut, not special music.
DZ: Right.
BK: Where you get into such a detail on your announcements, and it’s like, guys, we have technology. Like, we have bulletins, maybe. We have screens. There are ways of communicating all those details to people without taking up this precious time that the church is gathered to do that.
DZ: Yeah. And I’ve… Yeah, I’ve seen churches cut announcements so that they can pray longer. It’s like… So in terms of, like, effectiveness. Wow. You know, that’s a good point. I’m glad you mentioned that.
BK: That is so good. Well, now, here’s a really bad reason for special music, and that is… But I’ve seen this. People just want to platform their gifts. Like, there’s a soloist or maybe a pastor’s wife or maybe, I don’t know who. But it’s just they feel like I should be singing. I got this gift. I should be using it. And they might have the gift, they might not have the gift, but there’s pressure placed upon the leaders to kind of platform that gift. And that’s a really bad reason to have special music, because our gifts are meant to point to and create fresh affection for the Lord Jesus, not us. They don’t point to us. We’re signposts. That’s the best we can be. We’re windows, if you will. We’re mirrors that are kind of bent that reflect the Lord, that we’re just not the main point. So if you have someone… And this could be a choir as well. Choir director, we need to do our thing. This is… Like the life of the church depends on the choir singing the song.
DZ: You’re right.
BK: There’s just nothing in scripture that says the edification of the saints, the building of the body into Christ, into a temple in which God dwells by his spirit Ephesians 2:22. That all that’s dependent on a choir singing.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Now, I know, like, some people might be hearing this and going, “There’s no way we’re losing our choir.”
DZ: Yeah, yeah.
BK: We’re just saying you don’t have to lose your choir, but you should be asking the question, is that really what God wants to use to build up our church, to build up our people? And I’m familiar with all the dynamics of that not personally, but in talking with people.
DZ: Yes. Right, right, right.
BK: You’ve got a choir for 15 years, 20 years. I’ve been a part of the choir for 30 years. And you’re talking about not doing a choir song every Sunday? Well, if it’s serving the church and building up people and pointing them to Christ and fitting then with the theme of… The progression of the meeting, and people are being fed and it causes them to want to sing themselves, great. But if not, then I think you really gotta… You gotta ask some hard questions.
DZ: Yeah. And it’s sort of going back to the, like, first point we had. If you have it just because you have it and you haven’t given too much thought about it, well, then it locks everyone into that thinking.
BK: Yeah.
DZ: And then you can’t ever change.
BK: Yes.
DZ: Or you can’t ever make suggestions or changes to the liturgy because it’ll feel like, well, what do we do with all these 45 people or 30 people? If… And again, hear us clearly, we’re not saying, get rid of your choirs.
BK: The choirs are great. I love choirs.
DZ: We use one in Sovereign Grace occasionally.
BK: Once a month.
DZ: Once a month. But the point that we’re trying to dialogue about is just because you have it doesn’t mean that you should be using it all of the time.
BK: Yes, yes. The members of the choir, just like the members of a band, are members of the congregation. And whether they’re singing on a… You know, in the front or they’re singing in the congregation, they’re doing the same thing. They’re seeking to, by the Holy Spirit’s power through Christ, bring glory to the Father. That’s what we’re all doing. So to place such an emphasis on a choir can fight against those realities or that reality, I should say. I wanted to talk to you about performance because a lot of people, when they think of special music, they react to it because it just smacks of the world’s values. Self promotion…
DZ: Oh, yeah, yeah.
BK: Personality performance. It’s just… Well, you can’t have special music because it’s just a performance. But it doesn’t have to be that way. Before we talk about some of the good reasons, I wanted to just get into this.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Just because someone is singing a solo, it doesn’t mean that they have a performance mentality. And by a performance mentality, I would say it’s one that draws attention to the performer rather than the one they’re singing to or about.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: So that could be done through excessive display of skill or technique.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: It could be done through gestures. Do you know what I’m talking about?
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Just that you see someone, even a choir, it’s like, we’re here.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: And there’s this just awareness that you are thinking about yourself. I’m not sure you’re thinking… So there’s a performance way of doing thing that is not necessarily always the case when someone does a special song. I know one pastor who just doesn’t do any special music because of that. But when you have someone who is humble, you have someone who’s skilled, you have someone whose heart wants nothing more than to glorify Jesus and does it well. And you have them sing something for the congregation, it can be so moving and so affecting and point to Christ and build up the church and do all those things that congregational singing is meant to do as well. It’s just a different way of doing it.
DZ: Yeah. Yeah.
BK: And you don’t have to sacrifice your skill or preparation or quality to recognize that the power of what we do comes not through those things, but through the truth. It reminds me of what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2. He’s talking about… When he came to preach to the Corinthians. He said, Verse 3, “I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling.” Because there were people at that time who went around making their living off of just giving speeches. They were eloquent, they were wise in their own eyes. They were impressive. Paul says, I’m not going to be like those guys. My speech and my message were not implausible words of wisdom. Not to say that he wasn’t speaking with wisdom, but just the way the world would interpret that. But in demonstration of the spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. So a godly performer is saying, “I don’t want your faith to rest in my skills and my abilities, but in the one I’m proclaiming.” It’s what John Piper calls undistracting excellence. We’ve talked about before.
DZ: Yes. Mm-hmm.
BK: It is excellent, but it helps people focus on eternal realities and not temporal sounds, which is what we’re aiming for.
DZ: Yeah, absolutely.
BK: So those are some of the bad reasons for special music. What are some of the good reasons for special music? I’m glad you asked that question. Actually, I asked the question. So I’d love to hear from you. When have you seen it done well? Like a choir or, you know… solo…
DZ: Yes. Yeah. I mean, there have been so many times where I’ve been at a church, even the church I grew up in, that the choir would sing a piece that was so affecting. And I also knew the people in the choir. That’s huge. So when you were saying that we are attached to the congregation, these are people that we’re doing life with. When you see someone singing to you and you know what they’re going through.
BK: Yes.
DZ: That is such a powerful… That’s such a beautiful thing. Because we’re not always facing each other.
BK: That’s right.
DZ: So I think that’s the… Yeah. I mean, I can’t count the times that they’ve had… They have sung something that they’ve practiced. It’s beautiful. It sounds good. The words are clear, and it’s so affecting.
BK: Yes.
DZ: So that’s… That is a great reason to bring a… I could think of a lot of reasons, but that’s one of them.
BK: And I think that is a motivation or at least a reason for choirs not to think of themselves simply as performers. You know, very straight and just very… Only thing that’s moving here is my lips.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: That’s all. I remember just recently, I watched a video. Sounds like all I do is sit around and watch videos. I watched a video of a choir. They were singing these beautiful words, but there was nothing on the faces of the people who were singing it. And it was… You know, it was just, we want to sing this right. We want to sing it well. But you know what? “Those who look to him are radiant. Their faces will never be ashamed.” Psalm 34:5. There is something that’s supposed to be happening there, if we’re looking to him. And if we’re looking to our performance, that’s not going to be there.
DZ: Yeah. Right.
BK: So I think that that’s a reason for those who are doing a special song, to communicate not only with their sound, but with their countenance. With their bodies, with their gestures, that this means something. So when is it good? Well, when it ties in thematically to what’s going on, the progression, and it deepens people’s affections.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: For God’s word and his worthiness and his works. It can be effective when you want to teach a new song to the congregation. So we’ve done this and others have as well. Can be done at the beginning of service, can be done in the middle, can be done in another meeting. It can be done sometimes when you’re sharing communion. Just a way of teaching. Hey, we want to… You learn the song, choir’s going to do it.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Yeah. That’s just one way it can be done. A first verse of a song is not like a special song, but you might say to the congregation, which we’ve done occasionally, just listen to this first verse and this chorus as it’s sung. People hear it, they get familiar with it, they learn it, and then they sing it themselves. So that can be effective at that point.
DZ: Yeah. I also have the thought of a person in your church who maybe is writing songs, and they have sort of worked hard to craft a song, and they want to share it with the church, and it’s approved by the pastors. And…
BK: Yeah. It’s always good.
DZ: And in the service, it’s… But even that can be such a useful way to bless and encourage the body. And I mean, from experience, like, that’s the church I grew up in. When I started… When God saved me and I started to write songs, I had an opportunity to share a song as a special. And it wasn’t… It wasn’t abused, like, oh, it always needs to be.
BK: Yes.
DZ: But for a young songwriter, that was an opportunity for me to encourage the church and for me to use a gift that God was giving me to sort of cultivate. And so, yeah, I think that was one thing as well.
BK: That hits a number of different levels.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Just encouraging young people in the church, encouraging the gifts God has given the church. Encouraging the church.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Yeah. And glorifying Jesus in all those ways. It can be… You can do a special song as the elements, the bread and the cup are being passed for the Lord’s Supper. Or if you come up to receive them, someone can do a song during that time. Which, again, enables people to reflect, to listen. But it’s gotta be carefully chosen. None of these are just, well, we got all these songs we gotta do. This is what the choir does and… No, it requires a thoughtfulness about how does this fit? Think a special song can be used to mark a significant Sunday. Like, we’ll typically have a choir on, like, Easter.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Or Christmas. Or maybe a kid’s choir, it can be used as a sign of how you’re… As an example of how you’re passing on the gospel to the next generation.
DZ: Totally.
BK: Because… And that could be… It’s not just a cute thing.
DZ: Yes.
BK: Although it is very cute. You see the guy in the front row. The kid in the front row, just gone… You know, kind of off in the la-la land. That can be cute. But it’s saying we care about what our children are singing.
DZ: Yes. Definitely.
BK: And that can be a very powerful moment. It can give people an opportunity to use their gifts to encourage the church. As you just said, you were describing, as a songwriter. It could be someone who has… I’ve had this question asked to me. You know, I have a classical vocalist.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: She doesn’t quite fit in with the team. Why not have her sing a song one Sunday? You know, that is… The words are rich and she sings it with passion and you know her life. She’s living a life worthy of the gospel. Yeah. That could really, really bless the church.
DZ: Mmh.
BK: We’ve used a special song one Sunday to open up the meeting. Just say, this is our call to worship.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: And we just… And it was very effective.
DZ: Yes, very.
BK: Just kind of… But we wouldn’t want to do that every single Sunday, because what we want starting the Sunday is the word of God. That’s what… That’s what begins us. We’re responding to what God has said to us. So those are some of the ways that a special song could be used in a way to serve the church. But just some things to keep in mind as we’re thinking through this. One question to ask is how much are… Is special music serving us and how much are we serving it?
DZ: Yeah.
BK: You know that balance of… Yeah. Who’s… Who’s… Is the tail wagging the dog. The dog wagging the tail?
DZ: Right.
BK: You know.
DZ: Right.
BK: Yeah. And it can require asking some hard questions.
DZ: Yes. Yeah. Are we bound to this?
BK: Yes. Yes.
DZ: Is this what we have to do? You know, and I have dear friends that have become worship leaders in their church, and they have tried to steer a ship away from what they’ve always done.
BK: Yes.
DZ: Slowly, patiently, gently. And it has been catastrophic. The Titanic. The ship turned into the Titanic.
BK: I thought you were gonna encourage people and say how this was so great and how God blessed it.
DZ: My point is… My point is, if you… I mean, eventually, yes, it did.
BK: Yeah.
DZ: And I think it also kind of weeded out people that were only doing it because, well, that’s what I do.
BK: Well, that’s… Can I say something here?
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Yeah. That’s the next point. What is the character of the people involved and what is the effect of their doing these things?
DZ: Oh, yes.
BK: Because if it’s not magnifying God’s glory in Christ, if it’s not more gratefulness in the church, if it’s not a clearer view of God’s mercy to us and how much we have to be grateful for, well, then maybe that’s not the right person to be doing that. Well, it’s not the right person to be doing that.
DZ: No.
BK: You know, if as someone is singing, and this could include a choir, too, people in the congregation are thinking, what are they doing up there? That is not bringing glory to the Lord. It’s not serving your people.
DZ: Yeah. This is the church. Right?
BK: Yes. It’s the church of Jesus Christ.
DZ: Don’t forget, this is the church. Like sing anywhere. But this is such a sacred, yeah, gathering.
BK: We are putting people up in front of the church who are called to represent Jesus Christ. They are pointing to him. They are declaring his mercies, his grace and truth. And we don’t want to put someone up there doing special music who doesn’t do that.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: We have to trust that the fruit of what they’re doing is going to be that people see Jesus more clearly, and their life is a part of that.
DZ: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
BK: So we have to ask about the character of the people involved in it. For leaders, this is a question. How much does fear of man play a part in your letting people serve in ways that don’t bless the church? That’s a hard question, but one that’s really important to ask. Because I’ll have guys ask me, yeah, I inherited this person, and I just don’t know what to do. And you have to have a hard conversation. Now, it might be the pastor’s daughter or the pastor’s wife. Or it might be someone who’s just been a part of the church for 40 years. There are conversations you can have. Maybe we should do a podcast on this someday. Hard conversations with people on your team.
BK: There is a way you can say, “You know what? I love your heart to serve the church, but I think God may have gifted you in other ways. And I think that this would be more fruitful than what you’re doing.” “Oh, been doing this for 40 years.” “God can move us on. He can change us. You know, there are… And I want to see you be the most fruitful.” And you’ve got to really believe that. That’s got to be a genuine conversation. But you can’t let fear of man allow one person’s desires to affect the whole church.
DZ: Definitely.
BK: I want to do special music. Okay. Okay. You will. No, we can’t… We can’t let that be.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: And then for those who who have not even considered special music or have. Think of it as anathema, you know. No, never. I’m never gonna do special music.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: I think you should be asking, how might a song or a portion of a song that’s sung for the church, how might God use that to serve and to build up and to bless and to strengthen the church?
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Because we’ve found that at different times. I think we may have done this more years ago, but I find that sometimes just starting a song with a single vocalist can just bring a different focus to those words that really serves the church. And then we lead into everybody singing together.
DZ: Right.
BK: But it’s just a moment for us to hear it differently and think, yeah, this is impacting me, and the truth is impacting me, and I want to sing.
DZ: Yeah. And I would also encourage, like, maybe if you’re listening to this song and God has gifted you to either lead a choir or to sing, he’s given you a good voice or he’s given you songs to sing. I would also just speak to sort of your motives. We never have perfectly pure motives when we are trying to share a special song or when we’re trying to lead a choir or we’re practicing to get the choir to sound amazing so they’re in tune. When you do it on a Sunday, can you just briefly talk about, like, just… Our motives are never perfectly pure.
BK: Yeah, that’s a great… I’m glad you brought that up, because that is something that we haven’t hit head on. Your motives will never be perfectly pure, but you can be going in the right direction. And there is a… I think there’s a tipping point where you know, no, I really want to do this because I want Jesus to be magnified in my life. And part of the way you discover that is just by asking the people around you.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: So if your pastor, your leader, is saying, “I don’t think you’re ready.” You probably aren’t ready. I mean, they’re not out to squash you, keep your talent hidden. They’re thinking, I’m not sure that’s going to bless the church. Or ask them, “So help me understand why I’m not ready. Because I really want to grow.”
DZ: Yeah.
BK: And it may be… Now, this would be hard to hear. It may be, “I just don’t think your gift is the kind of gift that will bless the church.” You know what? Some people, when they hear that, they just leave the church.
DZ: Totally.
BK: That’s the worst thing you could do.
DZ: Right.
BK: Because God’s given you the gift of someone who’s going to be… Being honest with you. And that will help you understand what your real gifts are.
DZ: Right.
BK: So you don’t want to run from that. But if that… You’re struggling with that, Oh, I don’t know. Am I going to be so proud? You know, do I want to do this for my own glory? If other people are encouraging you to do it and they’re saying, “Yeah, this would be good.” Confess that to the Lord. Just tell him, “Lord, I feel even within me right now, there’s a desire to bring glory to myself. I don’t want to do that. That’s sin. Jesus, you died for that. You died for my pride. You hung on the cross so that my selfish ambition would not receive the judgment of God, but would be paid for through your blood. Thank you.” And that should lead into, “I want to go sing so that people might know what a glorious savior you are.” And if you’ve done that, it will be tested.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: People come up to you and say, “Yeah, you sounded a little flat on that top note. Were you thinking about something?” Or no one will say anything.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: And you know, that’s a test. So in those moments, do the same thing.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Lord, right now I just want people to think I’m just the most amazing singer.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: And just keep working at it. Keep going in that direction. And above all, just say this… Just know this, the effectiveness of your voice is not so much in its individualness, but that it’s part of the congregation that Jesus, our worship leader, is leading.
DZ: Totally.
BK: We get to be a part of the congregation. That’s amazing.
DZ: Yeah. Yeah. Well said.
BK: And when we’re in the new heavens, the new earth, I mean, I know what Jesus is going to do. David, you sing a solo for everybody.
DZ: Peter, stand up and sing. Let them hear that voice, that golden voice I gave you.
BK: I think of Psalm 40:9, David says, “I have told the glad news of deliverance in the great congregation. Behold, I have not restrained my lips. As you know, O Lord.” It’s not just proclaiming the glad news of deliverance by myself.
DZ: You’re right.
BK: It’s in the great congregation. And if we find that our only joy, our greatest joy, is doing it in front of people, well, that’s a problem. You’ve got to examine your heart and again, confess that sin where you see it. Humble yourself. Tell others, I was thinking this thought, but no, Jesus paid for that sin. And if he’s given you a gift, he wants you to use it for his glory. And he’ll give you that opportunity. But the greatest joy is just being a part of the congregation.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: So special music or no, through the life, atoning death and sacrifice and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we get to be a part of the congregation. And may that always be our greatest joy.
DZ: Amen. Amen.
[music]
BK: Well, thanks for joining us for this conversation. Hope you’ll join us for the the next one. Thank you for listening to Sound Plus Doctrine, the podcast of Sovereign Grace Music. Sovereign Grace Music exists to produce Christ’s exalting songs and training for the church from our local churches. For more information, free sheet music, translations and training resources, you can Visit us sovereigngracemusic.org.
