David Zimmer: Hello, and welcome to the Sound + Doctrine Podcast. My name is David Zimmer.
Bob Kauflin: My name is Bob Kauflin.
David Zimmer: And what are we talking about today, Bob?
Bob Kauflin: Well, you should know. We’re going to try and tackle the topic of planning, spontaneity, and authenticity.
David Zimmer: Wow.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah.
David Zimmer: So, already the spontaneous people, they’re gone. They’re out.
Bob Kauflin: When you said planning, was it…
David Zimmer: Yeah, planning. Oh, yeah, let’s talk about that. I don’t want to talk about spontaneity.
Bob Kauflin: Okay. Actually, we’re going to talk about all of them. And we toyed around with different titles for this. To Plan or Not to Plan? Is that the question?
David Zimmer: Right.
Bob Kauflin: To Plan or to Be Spontaneous? Is that the question? Planning versus spontaneity. Who will win out in the battle of the. We dropped all those and just went with planning, spontaneity, and authenticity.
David Zimmer: I like, though, that you added authenticity, though, because that’s for every leader. I just want to be authentic. I just want to be my real self.
Bob Kauflin: Rather than your fake self?
David Zimmer: Yeah, rather than your fake self.
Bob Kauflin: That is the spirit of our age. And I think it’s always been an issue. I’ve been doing this for a long time now, and I remember reading ads early on just for worship songs or worship albums or whatever. Authentic, real, genuine. Everybody else has gone before me is inauthentic.
David Zimmer: You’re right.
Bob Kauflin: They’re fake. They’re manufactured. It’s just like. No, guys, really, really, it’s this… There’s a tension. That’s what we want to talk about. This tension between planning and spontaneity. Because when you plan, here’s the benefit of planning is you know what you’re gonna do. You thought about it. You’ve actually put thought into it. You’re able to make it balanced, say the things you want to say, and hopefully you’re not gonna do anything heretical. I mean, that’s. Although some people plan and they do heretical stuff anyway. When you’re spontaneous and this is that whole thing of authenticity, you feel authentic, you feel more real, it feels more personal. And, I mean, I feel that… I’ve watched people, they have a script, they have something they’re reading, and then they go off script and they’re thinking…
Bob Kauflin: In fact, we used to do this here at Sovereign Grace Church, Louisville, where we have a pastoral prayer each week, and guys would… They’d write out their prayer, and it’d be really great, but then they’d just veer off every so often. And we really mean this, Lord, and we just have to tell each other, that doesn’t make it better. I mean, I know you think it makes it better, but it’s not really making it better. And yet there are other times when you do something spontaneous. In fact, I just asked this question recently. You do something spontaneous or something happens spontaneously, not what you planned, and people come up at you afterwards and go, wow, that was awesome.
David Zimmer: That is so funny. It’s almost like you have to plan so that you can be spontaneous, so that you can be authentic.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah.
David Zimmer: So, we could just end the podcast right now.
Bob Kauflin: Okay.
David Zimmer: Yeah. So, it was great to meet with you. Thanks for joining us.
Bob Kauflin: Was that helpful? We hope that was helpful. We’ll see you next week. No, we have more to say. We have more to say. It’s not a choice between being planning and being spontaneous and authentic. We want to talk about how you can plan and be spontaneous and authentic all at the same time. And I would make the case that those who are prepared to be spontaneous will have more opportunities to glorify God. And that preparation is the key part, because it’s planning. That’s the preparation. Spontaneity rarely happens in a vacuum. And if it does, that’s usually a problem because we’re just making it up as we go along. And a lot of people who are spontaneous find, or primarily spontaneous find that what they do tends to be repetitive. It’s redundant. They just keep doing the same thing over and over and over. And they think it’s spontaneous. Spontaneous, well not… Not really. Just keep doing the things, whatever comes in your mind, and it happens to be five things that you choose from. And it’s that way all the time. Martyn Lloyd Jones, one of the greatest 20th century preachers, he lived in England, was quoted in the book the Sacred Anointing.
Bob Kauflin: He said this. “The spirit generally uses a man’s best preparation” or a woman’s best preparation. “It is not the spirit or preparation. It is preparation plus the unction and the anointing and that which the Holy Spirit alone can supply.” So, I love that he brings together the spirit or the more spontaneous. Maybe we might think that way. And preparation. So, we plan and prepare so that we might be spontaneous without fear, without concern. I think that that’d be the goal. If you’re a leader and you’re struggling through this, maybe you’re a planner. What would you be, David? Would you tend to just by nature?
David Zimmer: Well, I feel like I love to improvise, so musically, I always feel more comfortably interacting with what’s happening around me…
Bob Kauflin: Right at the moment.
David Zimmer: Yeah, right at the moment.
Bob Kauflin: Agree.
David Zimmer: Yeah. You’re similar to that. Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: How about speaking?
David Zimmer: Which is why it’s really… I’ll get to that.
Bob Kauflin: Okay.
David Zimmer: Which is why it’s really funny. And just a little pull back the curtain insight. It’s like, so hard for Bob and I to play to ourselves.
Bob Kauflin: Yes.
David Zimmer: When we’ve pre recorded and Grace probably shouting amen from the control room. But so… And so, how that…
Bob Kauflin: What do you mean that play to ourselves?
David Zimmer: Well, when we pre record and then we have to film it, it’s like, it’s brutal. It’s like it never aligns up. Because we like to improvise, we like to adapt.
Bob Kauflin: Make music in the moment.
David Zimmer: In the moment. Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: Make music. Don’t play a chart. Make music.
David Zimmer: Right. So, absolutely, I have… I do terrible on my… Just on my toes, like. Oh, just talk.
Bob Kauflin: Oh, speaking.
David Zimmer: Speaking, yeah.
Bob Kauflin: Okay. Never move to speaking. Yeah.
David Zimmer: Yeah. That was just a perfect example of… Yeah. So, I definitely need to… I need to plan and prep. I need to put way more emphasis on my preparation. But I also… I mean, this is a good podcast for me because I want to be in the beat. I want to be in the middle. I want to use the notes, use the planning, but also be able to just speak freely.
Bob Kauflin: Well, I would say, we’re in our 10th season of this podcast, which I don’t… I think that’s six years, five years, I’m not sure.
David Zimmer: Since 2020 it started.
Bob Kauflin: 2020. Shoosh. But I would say you have grown from what I can see more in spontaneous speaking. But it’s because you’ve grown in your knowledge and you’ve grown in preparation. So, musically you’re prepared. You’ve been professional musician for years, and so, to get up and start talking about music, that’s like breathing. Okay. Yeah, just wake me up in the middle of the night. I’m ready. But the other, it’s there is a confidence that comes through planning over and over and over that will help you be spontaneous. So, we’re gonna split this up by first just talking about planning and what’s so great about planning? Cause I know there are some leaders who are listening to this. And you don’t have to be a leader. You just… You love the spontaneous. And let’s just go and know that God commends planning. So that’s the first thing. God commends planning. Proverbs 21:5. The plans of the diligent surely lead surely to abundance. But everyone who is hasty, or maybe spontaneous comes only to poverty. So, that’s in the area of finances, but it applies to every area.
David Zimmer: Oh, it’s like, yeah, building a house. And even in cooking, it’s like… It’s, everything has its right place. It’s…
Bob Kauflin: It’s like have what? I’m sorry. I don’t know what that means.
David Zimmer: Yeah, so it’s a French term of just, everything has its right place, where it’s like, okay, if you’re coming to cook, bring all the ingredients together so that you’re not cooking and then running to go get something else.
Bob Kauflin: Got it.
David Zimmer: It’s like, when you’re speaking publicly, we don’t have any ingredients in front of us. We’re just going, I’ll just riff on what I’m looking at [0:09:02.7] ____.
Bob Kauflin: Other than what’s already there.
David Zimmer: Right.
Bob Kauflin: Which is where the preparation comes. Julie and I, when we build something, we are so different. We put something together. I want to read all the plans.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: Okay. Do we have all the pieces? Okay. Four, five, six, seven. Okay. We have all those, and just all that stuff. Julie. Okay, Pull it out. All right, let’s get going.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: She’s just right in there. And I tell her, babe, I’ve rescued you so many times. But the worst is when you plan and you still build it wrong. That’s the worst. Okay. Anyway. All right, so God commends planning. That’s the first thing we’re talking about. So, the benefits of planning. Someone maybe needs to be convinced. Why is this so important? Well, for a meeting. First, it indicates an awareness of our need for God before the meeting. Now, if we just charge in with, yeah, I’m just going for it. As we begin planning, we realize how little we know. Maybe because we’re being spontaneous then. And we realize, oh, there’s nothing to draw from. Unprepared we are, or what a significant task we face. So that’s… Planning just makes us alert to those things. It can help us, especially leading music. It can help us be more intentional about our theological diet. That would apply to preaching as well.
David Zimmer: Definitely.
Bob Kauflin: A preacher shouldn’t just be listening during the week. Yeah. What should I preach on this week? Oh, I don’t know. You want to plan that out. And in Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville, we use the word in a call to worship. We are building it on the message from the previous Sunday. We put scripture readings in that. Emphasize that thought, that theme, and the Gospel. We have a benediction, which is the word of God. We have a pastoral prayer. We’re thinking about song themes over the long haul, all those things. It can’t be done without planning. If we just kind of went into Sunday planning. If we didn’t do it. Just said, hey, let’s just show up. I mean, I used to do that in the 70s. We just used to show up. It can prepare people to serve with their contributions. So, we generally send out songs on Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday. And so, if people aren’t familiar with the song or have to be prepared to share a testimony or whatever, that gives them time to do that.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: Not everybody’s a professional musician, professional speaker. So, it just gives them an opportunity, and then it makes us less likely to lead by emotion or experience.
David Zimmer: Yeah, I think this one’s huge.
Bob Kauflin: So, for you, as you’re standing up to lead, I mean, what do you see is that you said you tend to be more spontaneous, not as planned. What’s been the change in your thinking over the years, as you’ve realized. Yeah, here’s my tendency.
David Zimmer: Oh, yeah. I mean, honestly, with your help. I think when I was leading worship back in California, it was just kind of on the whim of how I felt that day. On the whim of how I felt that morning. Maybe in my quiet times, or just… Yeah, I’m feeling a little melancholy today, so… So, I’m gonna just kind of… I had already planned. I already prepped everything, but my… Just sort of my spirit kind of got to the place where I thought, well, kind of lead these songs sort of melancholy. And I’m just gonna focus on how things are really hard and things are really challenging. And there was… That is exactly what I’ve learned, and I feel like I still do that on occasion, but I’m trying to grow in that area. But I feel like you have helped me so much to think it’s so not about how you feel in this moment, and the right leader is going to be able to take in all of the information of how everyone is kind of experiencing things in the room. And another example of this, just to kind of bring it home is C.J. Has really helped. He’ll preach a sermon. He’ll get to the end, and he… We talk about landing the plane. Right. He’s sort of, he will either land it sort of down emotionally.
Bob Kauflin: Yes.
David Zimmer: Or more introspective or up emotionally. And let’s celebrate and sing. And where you have helped me, and he has personally helped me…
Bob Kauflin: So this is C.J. Mahaney, senior pastor.
David Zimmer: Yeah. Where you both have helped me is, don’t go into that thinking in your mind how you feel. You have to draw a direct line to, how did he… What was the feeling, what was the vibe of that? What was the feeling of how he did that? Or he’s saying, Lord, we need your help as we go to the song. And it’s like, stand on your feet, everybody. Let’s go. And so that was a really long winded way to share that. But I think those are two things that have been helpful for me.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah. And that’s… We’re gonna talk about that when planning. Planning doesn’t always ensure that you plan the right things.
David Zimmer: Yeah, right.
Bob Kauflin: That’s a drawback of planning. But the point you’re making is it’s just not about what I feel at the moment. And planning can help you rise above that. The question when we’re going by feelings is not, is this biblical? Is this what the church needs? But, will this help us feel God? Is this going to make people passionate? It’s about our feelings rather than, no, we’re going to be faithful to proclaim who God is, what he’s done for us in Christ, and then let the Spirit do His work. So, we’re not trying to make things happen emotionally.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: It enables large groups to maximize their time better. Won’t spend any time on that. And it can help us give more effective and timely spoken contributions. So, you were talking moments ago about just how you’re learning to just be more prepared in those things.
David Zimmer: Yeah. More succinct, not as droning on. Definitely.
Bob Kauflin: Yes. And this is where authenticity comes in. We think, oh, if I prepare it, wow. I don’t know if it’ll be authentic. I mean, planning doesn’t mean you can’t be spontaneous, but planning doesn’t mean you can’t be authentic either.
David Zimmer: Right.
Bob Kauflin: And I think I’d say to leaders, when we are reading something we’ve prepared or saying something we’ve prepared, we should seek to be affected by that. And I think that’s where we get off a little bit, thinking, oh, this is just a mind thing. I’m just reading it. So, it doesn’t need to carry any emotion, any affection. Some people would even say, don’t show that you’re affected. I would say, and I think scripture would support this.
David Zimmer: Definitely would.
Bob Kauflin: No. My heart is steadfast. Oh, God, I will sing and make melody with all my being. Psalm 108. It’s like, if I’m affected, I want people to see it.
David Zimmer: Totally. And so, that’s what I love about how you’re thinking through throwing that authentic word in there is really great because you’re trying to figure out the spirit and emotion of what you’re saying. Because you know what else isn’t authentic? When you plan and you say, can help us give more than, let’s read from the Bible Scripture. That’s what, just reading your notes. We talk to guys that come to our intensive, and every word is planned. So, the song we just sang was, that…
Bob Kauflin: Yes. Each word.
David Zimmer: That’s how I can…
Bob Kauflin: And doesn’t feel that great. But to get to the positives of planning, it can keep you from veering off into just emotional silliness or repetitive things.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: So, that’s some of the limitations. Can’t replace dependence on the Holy Spirit. Depends that planning camp.
David Zimmer: Right.
Bob Kauflin: C.J. Has said for years, and I’m sure I’ve said this on the podcast, “the Holy Spirit helps us plan, but our plans are not the Holy Spirit.” So helpful. Very succinct. Holy Spirit helps us when we plan, and the Holy Spirit helps us as we lead. Both are true. Planning can ensure everything will go right. Talked about that. If the equipment malfunctions or if people call in sick, we’ve planned.
David Zimmer: Yes. Oh, no. The drummer’s gone. What’s gonna happen?
Bob Kauflin: Yes. It’s just, the world’s gonna fall apart. Can’t ensure that we’ve made the right plans. So, I’ve seen groups, bands work through an introduction, an intro to a song or an arrangement, and it just… Yeah, it’s just like everybody checks out when they play that. But they planned it, they prepared it. So, it’s not necessarily the right plan. Yeah. So, you learn that by experience. As far as the Lord in planning, this is good to keep in mind. Helpful for us to remember. Only the Lord’s plans are infallible. Only the Lord’s plans endure, Psalm 33:10. The Lord brings the council of the nations to nothing. He frustrates the plans of the peoples. And that may be us, on any given Sunday. The counsel of the Lord stands forever the plans of his heart to all generations. Which means sometimes it’s the Lord’s plan to overrule our plans.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: He might want us to be more dependent. He might want us to just recognize He’s the one in charge. He’s the one who receives the glory. So, He just might do something different. “The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord,” Proverbs 16:1. Remember one time, well, number of times we’ve been leading and electricity has gone out. Didn’t plan for that. One time, a woman was given a testimony and she had cancer and she was dying, and it went on for 20 minutes, and fortunately, she was very funny. So that was good. But I mean that our total plan was shot. Yeah. So, it just can’t… Planning doesn’t ensure you made the right plans.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: And the Gospel assures us that God plans to use the worst of our plans for our greatest good in his glory. All right, so let’s talk about spontaneity.
David Zimmer: Great.
Bob Kauflin: This is your deal. God commends spontaneity. What’s so great about spontaneity? I trust that people know that you see in Scripture all kinds of places where God does things spontaneously. Now, some of those are tied to the story of the Bible, what God’s doing in history. So in the Book of Acts, 3,000 get saved on the day of Pentecost, yet God’s doing something there. So, it’s not like you can say, well, it should be like that now. No, that’s not quite true. But God can do things that surprise us, things that shock us. So, what are some of the benefits that you’ve seen that you can talk about in terms of spontaneity? What does it help us do?
David Zimmer: Yeah, well, I mean, you already mentioned this briefly, but it causes a dependence on the Lord, not a dependence on ourselves.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah.
David Zimmer: I think we’re, especially in our reformed circles, I think we’re so dedicated to the truth of God’s word and preaching the truth of God’s word and singing the truth of God’s word, which is all. Yes. And amen.
Bob Kauflin: Amen.
David Zimmer: But I think sometimes we feel like, well, that has nothing to do with me, with our people, so… And I think sometimes what you can lose out on is the fact that God is doing incredible things in our midst, in our gatherings, and…
Bob Kauflin: More like we’re just checking a box.
David Zimmer: That’s what I mean.
Bob Kauflin: We did this.
David Zimmer: Yes, that’s what I mean. So, more dedicated to your liturgy than you are to… Are we seeing and experiencing Jesus?
Bob Kauflin: Oh, that’s so good. That’s so good. Yeah. Because there are seasons where it seems that waves, I’d say, where people just get enthralled with liturgy. Liturgy, the way your meeting is structured, it’s very important. We probably need to do a podcast on that. I’m sure we’ve talked about it.
David Zimmer: Again, you’ve planned. You’ve planned your liturgy
Bob Kauflin: You’ve planned, but it is not the Holy Spirit. And there is no perfect liturgy. Some liturgies are better than others. There’s no perfect liturgy. It does not bring you into God’s presence. Only Jesus does that. So, yeah, amen and amen. I think another thing that spontaneity gives us is the ability to respond to present needs and promptings.
David Zimmer: Yeah, that’s good. Yeah. Can you mention, I was so moved before I even relocated to Louisville. I was so moved how your church came alongside Becca Northrup, one of your members, when she had lost her husband tragically in a car accident, and she was pregnant with their child…
Bob Kauflin: Few days away from giving birth.
David Zimmer: Right. And I just was so affected from a distance, looking in at your church, that you guys would sort of pause your series and say, let’s talk about, I mean…
Bob Kauflin: Tragedy.
David Zimmer: Tragedy. Let’s talk about grief. Let’s talk about… Because that’s not only, not only does it serve your members, but it’s a teaching opportunity. And so, that is spontaneous. So…
Bob Kauflin: It was kind of that combination of plan spontaneity. I remember he died on a Thursday. And I remember being with some of the other pastors there at the hospital and just saying, well, this scraps our whole plan, and we just have to do something different. So, Friday and Saturday, we cobbled together something that I think really served the church on that Sunday, because obviously we were a smaller church and everybody was aware. So, yeah, I think that is on a bigger scale. There are smaller scale moments where I’ll be leading a song and we’ll have a line from it that just when Satan tempts me to despair and tells me of the guilt, I always use before the throne or in Christ alone as my examples, because it’s such great songs. So, it tempts me to despair. And as we’re singing that line, I may think there are some people here who are really battling despair. And so I could, after that meeting, after that song, say, as we were singing that song, I just wondered. I thought the Lord might be saying that there’s some people… Despair is a real problem for you right now.
Bob Kauflin: You may have even thought of taking your life or doing something drastic because you just see no hope in your situation. God wants to remind you He is the God of all hope. He is the God who has raised his son from the dead so that you might know you will never be separated from his love. Just to say those things that are true, but at that moment in that way, is spontaneous, and I would call it prophetic. You might call it something else. But it’s the spirit impressing to say, yeah, say this, do this. Spontaneity can help us do that.
David Zimmer: Yeah. And you’re breaking through the structure, which I think can jolt people.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah. It’s different.
David Zimmer: Of, I don’t mean jolt in the wrong sense. I mean jolt in sort of a right sense of, okay, song one, song two, scripture…
Bob Kauflin: Yes. Yeah. This is what we do.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: Yep. So, gives us the freedom to respond to those present needs, promptings. Spontaneity can make us more aware of God’s timely personal care. And again, the illustration I just shared, if someone was praying that morning, God, I can’t do this anymore. I cannot go on. Would you give me some sign and you could say to them, well, He did give you some sign. He sent his son to die in your place for your sins. And that would be absolutely true. But God’s a generous God. He’s always looking for ways to express his love.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: It’s rooted. He can show no greater love than giving in. God shows his love for us in this. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us, Romans 5. But He’s not a stingy God. He’s not saying, unless you put your faith in that and get up off the floor, you snivel in. God’s not like that. He’s saying, I want to show you. I want to convince you. I want to persuade you that my love is infinite. It was proven at the cross. It was shown on the cross. It was demonstrated at the cross. But my love for you is now. And so, that’s where those present promptings and that personal nature of what God is doing is helped by spontaneity. It’s seen more clearly by spontaneity.
David Zimmer: That’s wonderful.
Bob Kauflin: It can lead us to seeing God do powerful works in our midst. So, you think at the end of 1 Corinthians 14: 24-25, where the unbeliever comes in, people are prophesying, they’re saying things that up build and encourage and console. 1 Corinthians 14:3. That’s what prophecy does. And so what he does, the secrets of his heart are disclosed. He falls on his face. He worships God and declares, God is really among you. Don’t we want to see that happen in our meetings?
David Zimmer: Yes.
Bob Kauflin: So, that spontaneity can lead to that and then it can nurture faith that God will do more than we can ask or think through the power of at work within us.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: And that’s always a joy when… You’re going to say something.
David Zimmer: No, that is a joy. Well, what I was going to say is it made me think of the hymn Praise to the Lord, the Almighty. We need more songs to talk about this. Ponder anew what the Almighty can do if with his love He befriends you. It’s like, if we are called and ransomed by the Lord, be amazed at what He can do in our midst. Be amazed. Do we lean in expectantly that He could do more than we can even ask and think. I sometimes think we just approach a gathering and go, well, we’ve thought about the liturgy and we’ve asked people to come or whatever. So more than you can ask and think.
Bob Kauflin: Amen. And God responds to that. He loves that kind of faith. That’s a great point. So, limitations of spontaneity. So, let’s talk about the limitations of planning. If you are overly dependent on spontaneity, it can lead you to becoming overly dependent on feelings, emotions, experiences. And it causes us to minimize God’s promised presence. He promised to be with us as the word is preached. He promised to be with us as the Lord’s Supper share. He promised to be with us as the saints gather. You can kind of dismiss all that and say, nothing’s really happening until something spontaneous happens.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: So that’s bad.
David Zimmer: Right.
Bob Kauflin: It can result in unintentional, unnecessary repetition and confusion. Isaac Watts in his book, A Guide to Prayer, I love this. “If we utterly neglect preparation, we shall be ready to fall into many difficulties.” Sometimes we shall be constrained to make long and indecent stops in prayer, not knowing what to say next. Sometimes when the mind is not regularly equipped, we run into a confused, incoherent and impertinent rhapsody of words by which both God may be dishonored and the edification of ourselves and others spoiled. Oh, dagger to the heart.
David Zimmer: So good.
Bob Kauflin: We can become agenda driven by being overly spontaneous. Just like, hey, what do I want to do? What do I think needs to be said?
David Zimmer: Yes.
Bob Kauflin: A leader who’s just always speaking to what they feel or what’s happening. In culture or it’s just like that’s where they get their basis from. What are we going to focus on? Well, just whatever’s happening. And then it can be theologically shallow, inaccurate or heretical. I’ve seen YouTube spontaneous songs, and I just thought, there’s one. I just have notes here. Get ready. Ready. Hold steady, steady. I’m about to do what’s not expected. Okay. I don’t even know what to do with that.
David Zimmer: No one knows what it means, but it’s provocative.
Bob Kauflin: No one knows. And then it’s worse. Spontaneity can usurp just good pastoral leadership, which we don’t want to do. So…
David Zimmer: Definitely.
Bob Kauflin: How do we prepare to be spontaneous? We’re gonna run through these so this doesn’t go on too long. First, prepare theologically. We want to be plan… We want to use planning in a way that’s really beneficial. We want to be spontaneous in a way that’s really beneficial. So, how do we do this? How do we… And I think for most of us, it would be that. Preparing the spontaneous. If that’s not you, then don’t listen to this part. If you want to grow in spontaneity, prepare theologically. Study the attributes of God as He’s revealed Himself in the gospel. Get to know God through His Word, and become persuaded theologically that this will be helpful for you and your church.
David Zimmer: Yeah. Good.
Bob Kauflin: And I think so many times today, especially churches, are spontaneous in a way that’s really unhelpful. It’s not built in The Word of God, is just built on this craving for experience. Craving for authenticity. Make it real.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: Well, the Word of God is real.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: It’s eternal. It’s dependable. It’s infallible. It’s always true, so to say, only what’s spontaneous is really helpful. That’s not good. But we can be always asking God to do more than we ask or think.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: And I love this quote from Graham Harrison, UK pastor who’s gone on to be with the Lord from his article, Worship in the Presence of God. He says “there can be no substitute for that manifested presence of God, which is always a biblical possibility for the people of God.” When it is not being experienced, they should humbly seek him for it. And this is so important. Not neglecting their ongoing duties nor denying their present blessings. Those two things. God’s given us things to do, and he has already blessed us so much, but recognizing that there is always infinitely more with our God and Father, who desires fellowship with those redeemed by the blood of His Son and regenerated by the work of His Spirit. Just love that. And two books I found very helpful just in terms of how the Spirit works in spontaneity, are Showing the Spirit by D.A. Carson and Paul the Spirit and the People of God by Gordon Fee. We’ll leave those in the notes for reference. Prepare musically. If you’re thinking, well, how does this happen? Practice spontaneity with your team. Do something different. Add an extra chorus. Keep playing at the end of a song. Practice it by yourself. Go unexpected places. Give them direction as you’re leading in rehearsal. All those kinds of things can help them be ready. If you should want to do something spontaneously in the actual meeting.
David Zimmer: Yeah, that’s great. Teach your musicians to listen. To listen and follow you. Because if they aren’t listening to you and they’re not following you, and they’re only married to the arrangement of the song, well, this is how we practice it.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah.
David Zimmer: I don’t know what to do. It’s like, you can teach your musicians. You could sit out. I think that’s also a great option.
Bob Kauflin: Yes.
David Zimmer: If you don’t know this song you can sing, you can practice that, the songs in your repertoire. But I just think, you’ve said this, if there was a better song to end a service after the message has been preached, if there’s a better song that is spontaneous than the one we’ve planned for, but your musicians don’t know it, you’ll still lead it.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah, just go up and lead yourself.
David Zimmer: Right. And I just… I love that because it’s like, well, that’s not on the calendar. We have a planning center that you put on the… So, I think that’s great.
Bob Kauflin: Yep. Third, prepare your heart. And by that I mean, just recognize you are not just putting in your time. You are being used by God to serve his people, to shepherd them, to care for them. Ask God to enable people to see his glory in Christ. How glorious, how beautiful, how gracious, merciful, powerful and good He is. Interact with the scriptures that you’ll be reading and the songs you’ll be singing. So just prepare your heart. Prepare administratively. Think, how can we be doing things better? And then take the steps to do those things better. I didn’t use Planning Center for quite some time. And then a friend of mine, Ken Bohr, who I was working with at the time, who’s just a dear friend and has said, “Hey, we should use Planning Center.” I said, “really? You think that’ll really help?” So I started using it. And it’s been a great tool. It’s been really helpful. It helps us be spontaneous. Because what I do is I have five songs, five minutes for each song. And I know the songs don’t all take five minutes. So that leaves a little flexibility in your plan.
David Zimmer: That’s great.
Bob Kauflin: So, part of preparing administratively is just not to so pack your meeting that you have no time to be spontaneous. And then I’d say prepare relationally. Build bridges of trust with your team, with your pastors. So if there’s something spontaneous going on, you have a bridge to walk on. You’re not just stepping on really thin ice, will this… I get in trouble for this? I don’t know. Yeah. That’s a horrible feeling.
David Zimmer: Yeah. And serve your pastor and serve your church. It’s not just about you pushing against everything else to sort of shift things and move things. Yeah, but I love that. I love that category.
Bob Kauflin: So those are some ideas. Obviously if you want to get better in planning, you just need to do it, ask people to help you. I find it a great help to set aside Tuesdays at 1:30 to plan the Sunday meeting. For a number of years I just did it by myself and now I do it with a group of people and it’s just so much better. And I know that’s when we’re going to do it. Sometimes we can’t, for out of town or something, but most weeks that’s when we do it. So, that’s helped me plan more effectively. So, the end of all this is we want it all. God wants us to have it all. Planning, spontaneity and authenticity. We can plan and be authentic. We can be spontaneous and be scripturally grounded. That’s our goal. And I love what D.A. Carson writes at the end of Showing the Spirit. He says “We must desire to know more of God’s presence in our lives and pray for a display of unleashed, reforming, revivifying power among us. Revivifying power among us. Dreading all steps that aim to domesticate God.” So that’s the spontaneous side coming out with flags.
Bob Kauflin: Just saying, yeah. But then he says this, “But such prayer and hunger must always be tempered with joyful submission to the constraints of the biblical discipline.”
David Zimmer: Yes, that’s gold, yeah.
Bob Kauflin: So well said. So may it be so. May we seek to be so prepared for our meetings that spontaneity becomes just a natural part of our practice as well as planning so that everyone might see more clearly the greatness of our Savior, the power of His Spirit, for the glory of God and the good of His people. Love talking about this stuff.
David Zimmer: Great. Thank you for talking about it, Bob. It’s been great. And thank you for joining us.
