David Zimmer: Welcome to the Sound Plus Doctrine podcast, my name is David Zimmer.
Bob Kauflin: And my name’s Bob Kauflin.
Devon Kauflin: And I’m Devon Kauflin.
BK: Here we are.
DZ: And here we are. Here we are.
DK: All right, let’s do it.
BK: So today…
DK: What are we talking about today?
BK: Hey, thanks Dev. Today we are talking…
DZ: Watch it.
BK: And we’re actually answering, we’re asking… Don’t assume so much authority. We’re answering a question that was sent in.
DZ: We love when you send in questions, I just wanna reiterate that. Where do you send your questions into?
BK: Great question. Dev, do you know.
DK: SoundPlusDoctrine@sovereigngrace.com.
BK: Whew, look at you.
DZ: Great. That’s excellent. I can’t do it anymore because I botched it in a previous episode. So I need to let other people do it.
BK: So here’s the question, “I have been leading worship for nearly 20 years, and for the last 5, as a full-time job. Right now, our church youth group has an average of 120 students every week.” That is a lot of students. “I would say at a guess, that around 70%, possibly more of these students do not have a relationship with Christ. Every week, we have worship as part of the service, but it is an uphill battle. Students act like we are not even there. They’re on their phones, turning their backs to us, carrying on conversations and horseplay all the while we are singing. We play upbeat youthful songs. We have a big sound system, screen, and lights. Our team puts in a lot of work to bring excellence as we lead. We endeavor to authentically worship while actively keeping students engaged with clapping or anthemic singing. And yet it is like the sound system is turned off and we don’t even exist. I’ve had conversations with our youth leaders about this. They have given messages on what it means to worship through songs. So these are some of the things they’ve done. And every week they preach Christ-centered gospel messages. I know that until these students give their lives to Jesus and have the Holy Spirit, I can’t expect them to worship one whom they do not know. All of us in leadership are praying for students to be saved. But in the meantime, I’m feeling lost as to how to lead in this situation and how to encourage my team.” So that is a great question.
DK: A great question.
DZ: That’s a great question. Can I… Go ahead?
DK: Well, I was just gonna say, first, thanks to this gentleman who is faithfully caring for this group of kids and desires to see them behold the glories of Jesus Christ. I mean, it’s just wonderful and commendable.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Yeah. I love the fact that he put in… You know… “we’ve given messages on what it means to worship through song and we preach Christ-centered gospel messages.” Without the gospel, nothing’s gonna happen. Without the holy spirit working through the gospel, nothing’s gonna happen. So he seems to be aware of that.
DZ: Yep. I was just gonna say, when I read this, I see myself when…
BK: Which side?
DZ: On the rebellious.
BK: Okay.
DZ: The rebellious kids.
DK: That was you.
DZ: I mean, God saved me when I was between my junior and senior year in high school. I remember constantly in junior high ministry, high school ministry, messing with my friends, not caring, laughing, telling jokes. I never turned my back.
[laughter]
BK: Yeah, that’s a big one.
DZ: I’m sorry that we’re laughing, that’s just hilarious to me. But I just see… Yeah, if it wasn’t for… What he said. If it wasn’t for the grace of God intervening in my life, I’m a PK. I knew what to do, what to say, but I just did not care until the Holy Spirit changed my life.
BK: Amen.
DZ: I mean, this is me, right here.
BK: Yeah. And to be clear, his question is not only about how to lead the youth group, but how to lead his team, how to encourage his team. In that situation where you are… And this doesn’t even have to be a youth group [laughter] this could be a church.
DZ: Absolutely.
BK: Where people just seem disinterested. And I think his point about without conversion, it doesn’t matter, nothing’s gonna happen. And you don’t want to lead in such a way that those who are unconverted, can sing enthusiastically.
DZ: Well said.
BK: That’s not your goal. So, Devon, I’d be interested in your thoughts initially, since you are the youngest of our group.
DK: I am?
BK: Aren’t you?
DK: No.
BK: Oh no you aren’t.
DK: I’m way older than David.
DZ: He threw you down, bro.
BK: David is the youngest of our group.
DZ: I am.
BK: I just think of you ’cause you’re my son.
DK: It’s good.
DZ: It’s just like a maturity thing.
DK: That’s good. It must be a maturity thing. [laughter]
BK: I’d be interested in your thoughts anyway.
DK: Even though I’m in the middle-age.
BK: Yes.
DK: I’m not middle-aged, let’s be clear.
BK: Who’s not saying you’re middle aged. Said you were the middle age.
DK: You should stop now.
DZ: This is going great. Dev, any thoughts about what he just said?
BK: All right. Yeah, let’s get some initial thoughts out there.
DK: I had lots of thoughts and I think they’re all gone.
BK: Sorry. I’m sorry.
DK: Which do you wanna tackle first, I think the ‘leading the team’ or the ‘leading the youth there’?
BK: I would… Go ahead.
DZ: ‘Leading the youth’, I would start with.
BK: Yeah, that’s what I said.
DK: All right. Starting with ‘leading the youth’?
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Yeah. ‘Cause I think this is a question that a lot of churches would have. I’ve certainly been asked a lot, “How do you lead?” What’s different about leading your youth group, now this is a disinterested youth group. This is a youth group, 70% aren’t paying attention. I have a story about this in Worship Matters, where I was leading a group of disinterested youth. It was about 15. It was in the living room and they weren’t paying attention. They were doing all these things. And I remember just stopping in the middle of the song and saying, “You guys have no idea what we’re doing right now. We are singing to the living God, the Holy Spirit is here… Well, maybe he’s here. And you all are acting as though nothing’s going on. You want to sing? You want to pay attention.” So basically…
DK: And revival happened.
BK: Oh yes. Oh man. Some people fell on the floor. They were wailing over their sin. No, nothing of that happened. I went back and then later on asked forgiveness to the parents for being such a jerk to their kids.
DK: I was in another context not with you. And…
BK: Fortunately.
DK: I was probably in 9th or 10th grade, maybe… Yeah, somewhere in there in high school. And we were in a small group setting and the leader had everybody do worship practice. [laughter] And so we had to go… We went around in a circle and practiced. So, it was at first we had to, I think, clap twice and say, “Praise the Lord.”
DZ: Oh, no.
DK: And I mean, as awkward as it was, made everybody go around the circle and do that. And then it was, “Praise the Lord.” And it was that kind of enthusiasm. Absolutely.
BK: Am sure it was so sincere.
DK: And then it was clap your hands and raise your hands and say, “Praise the Lord” and…
BK: Praise the Lord. Sorry, I just wanna give those who are on YouTube a visual.
DK: But I do think as we’re leading, we can be leading for this certain outcome. Like this should look a certain way.
BK: Yes.
DZ: Mm-hmm.
DK: And I would caution against that. And it doesn’t sound like this guy is doing that at all.
BK: No, no, no.
DK: But that’s a misguided pursuit where it’s “No, you should be doing this.”
DZ: Yeah.
BK: Yes. It’s… No demanding.
DK: Because our response is all of grace. And it only comes from a regenerate heart if it’s sincere and so that’s what we’re aiming for.
DZ: Yeah. And you can’t control the outcome, and you can’t force the outcome, as Bob just said. I also have a brief story. I was a junior high song leader for 2-3 years and I remember leading one time, and I saw these disinterested junior high-ers. And I remember saying, “If you don’t mean these words, I don’t want you to sing them.” And in the front row, this girl fell on her face, all the way down, locked her knees… Apparently she locks her knees a lot… I thought I had smite? Smoted?
BK: Smitten her.
DZ: Smitten her because of my powerful… And the same thing, I had to apologize to the parents.
[laughter]
BK: Alright. Well, that pretty much wraps it up for the podcast.
DZ: Exactly. You can’t force it.
DK: But as far as how do you lead this youth group, it’s been said before, but I think there’s a lot of wisdom in it, “What we win them with is what we win them to.” And so we wanna be clear on what we’re seeking to win these kids to. And we’re not seeking to win them to an experience, or to our relevance or coolness, or to anything they can get from the world, that’s not what we’re trying to win them to. We want them to see Jesus. And so, sincerely, we just continually point people to Jesus. I heard a preacher one time, a conversation I was having with him and he said, “You know, when I preach I’ve just learned, I just need to have a very short memory. And so I’ll be caring for people, talking to people about stuff, I’ll go up and preach. And as soon as I step down from that pulpit, I need to act like I never said those things when I’m interacting with people.” And he was speaking to just the patience that’s needed with other people as we care for them. Because we’re prone to forget. And it’s like, “I told you this before.” You do that in parenting. “I told you this already.” As if people are always gonna respond in the right way because we said it once.
DK: But thanks be to God that he is not like that with us. And so we shouldn’t be like that with others. And so when it comes to leading teens in particular, I think there is this reality that yeah it’s gonna be difficult. They’re probably gonna be disinterested often because they’re unregenerate. But what we are called to is just pointing them to Jesus, which it sounds like he’s doing. And that’s a hard thing to hear because it’s like, “Well I’m already doing that and I wanna see something different.” And that’s only gonna come by the Spirit of God. There’s not this, “Well, you know what? If you did more songs in F, everything would change.” Or, “If you had more lights, or less lights, or if you had… Whatever it is, if it was louder… ” None of those things can save those souls. Only one thing can.
BK: And it can almost be… You can fight against yourself. Like in his email he said, “We play upbeat youthful songs. We have a big sound system, screen and lights. Our team puts in a lot of work to bring excellence as we lead.” We’re not there, we haven’t seen it but a picture comes to mind of something that has a lot of production excellence. And my counsel would almost be, “You know what? Pull back on that some.”
DZ: Yeah. I was thinking the same thing when he mentioned, “It’s almost like the sound system’s turned off.”
BK: Yes, yes. Yeah. Well, why not even turn it off.
DZ: To your point, yeah, to your point, I wonder… And it’s again, Dev nailed it on the head and you said the same thing, Bob. I just think like unless the Holy Spirit intervenes, nothing will happen. But I do wonder if it’s easy for these kids to sort of hide in the lights or in the production.
BK: In the volume.
DZ: In the volume, potentially. Again, we’re not there. We don’t know. We’re just speaking to his question. But what if the sound system was turned off?
DK: Well, I think one thing to keep in mind is there’s… As he’s articulating this, it sounds like there are probably 30% of the kids there that are interested and engaged.
BK: Yes. There are some who are engaged.
DK: And so being aware that, “No, we wanna serve them well.”
DZ: That’s good.
DK: It’s 1 Corinthians 14, how Paul lays out order and edification in the context of the gathering. And where he ends is an unbeliever comes into that place. And they don’t come in because everything was catered to them, they don’t come in because it was so exciting. They come in and they respond because they see that God is in this place. And that’s what we’re seeking to… I think that’s how we’re gonna reach the lost. As we’re committed to the gospel and committed to serving the people of God that people see, “Oh, wow. There’s something different here. It’s not like what the empty things, the fleeting things this world has to offer. There’s something different here.” And that’s beholding the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
BK: Yes. And that’s what changes people’s lives. I think we can copy the mindset, mimic the mindset of the world… That it really is not interested in the integrity of the family, really not as interested in the truth, just wants to create a market share, which would be the teenager, and say, “We are gonna appeal to you. We are going to… You’re gonna have your own secret coded language. And we are going to make things so appealing that you have to feel… You’ll feel like you’re missing out if you’re not involved in what we’re giving you.” The church is not like that.
BK: We’re mindful that, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:1, People are dead in the trespasses and sins in which they’re walking, they’re dead. They have no spiritual antenna. They’re just dead” So what our joy is to do, is to proclaim in persuasive, and I would say, appealing ways. But the appealing-ness is not in, “Hey, we’re as cool as the world.” The appeal is, “Hey, you know what? We really care about you. We really love you. We really want to know you. We really want to make your life better in eternal ways.” So it seems like the more we focus on the reality that, “Okay, a lot of these people don’t know the Lord”, we’re just gonna talk about Jesus in a way that relates to their lives.
BK: Bring in situations that they might find themselves in and say, “Okay, now here’s what the world would do. Now here’s what a Christian would do. Is that in you? Is that… ” And spend more time in those youth meetings talking about what Jesus can do to a life, rather than insisting that they act like those whom Jesus has already changed.
DZ: Yeah. It’s excellent.
BK: Parents do this. I mean as parents, as our kids get older, we can assume that, “Well, we’ve raised them the right way. We’ve raised them in church, they’ve been coming to church. And so now they should just do all the things that Christians do”, forgetting that, you know what? Your child might not be converted. They might not have the spirit of God in them. And so to say, to insist that, “No, you need to raise your hand, you need to be joyful when you serve the Lord, you need to be kind to your brothers and sisters”, may not be the best thing to insist on.
BK: I mean, of course we want to draw parameters and give them direction. And we have that… We’re their authorities, but we shouldn’t expect Christian behavior. They’re not a new creation from those who are not believers. So in those contexts, I would be singing songs that are more proclamatory, more not necessarily upbeat, but songs that talk about real sorrows, real situations, real struggles that people have and how Christ is the answer to those. And like you were saying, Devon, it’s not gonna happen overnight. It’ll take time. But I guarantee that as we focus on the tools, use the tools that God has given us, His word, the gospel, our love for teenagers, it’s gonna change them over time. And that includes too what we do outside the meeting.
DK: Yeah.
BK: You know, if the only time we’re interested is when they’re at the meeting, that’s not gonna…
DK: Can you talk, really practically… So you’re leading this group, this Saturday night or Wednesday or whatever, what does that look like? What are you doing?
BK: And I’ve been a part of the church, I’m not coming in as a guest.
DK: Yeah, yeah. You’re this guy.
BK: Yeah. I’d probably start with the Word of God and talk about what it is that God has done that makes Him so worthy of singing to Him. Probably a verse from the Psalms, could be talk about someone who’s delivered. I would just wanna make sure I do the best I can to make it understandable.
DK: Yeah.
BK: This verse in scripture is talking about… Psalm 32, “Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity. And in his spirit, there is no deceit.” You know, we heard of words like blessed and we think, “Blessed, well what does that mean?” Well, it means a profound joy. It means it’s a state of being in which you are, in the truest sense, happy. You are…
DK: Flourishing.
BK: At peace. Sorry?
DK: Flourishing.
BK: Flourishing, yeah. So who is that person? You know, don’t you wanna be like that? Who’s that person? It’s the one whose, the Bible says transgression is forgiven. Now some of you are thinking, “Transgressions are forgiven? What are we talking about?” You know what, our biggest problem, I would talk about it, our biggest problem is our sin. You may think your biggest problem is right now that you can’t get a certain girl to like you, or it might be that your parents won’t give you the computer you want, or you can’t get whatever. Our biggest problem, guys, is our sin before God. And God says you will be the most fulfilled, the most happy, if you know your sins are forgiven. And what we’re here to sing about tonight and talk about tonight, is how we can see that happen.
DK: And would you persist in… I mean, would you share that long?
BK: I might… Maybe not. I mean, I’m just talking spontaneously now. I would definitely work on it, not speak off the cuff and…
DK: And be very concise and clear.
BK: Concise, yeah.
DK: ‘Cause I mean, yeah, people are disinterested.
BK: Yes. That’s right.
DK: Not engaged, messing around.
BK: Yeah, yeah. And then sing a song that comes directly out of that, then maybe go to another scripture. But just walk them through it.
DK: How about the types of songs that you would do? He mentioned, I think, maybe upbeat and the anthemic.
BK: Youthful, upbeat, yeah.
DK: Would those be categories that you would have? What would you be thinking about?
BK: I would not be thinking of, “I need to do youthful, upbeat songs.” I wouldn’t be against doing them, but I wouldn’t see that as what’s gonna motivate people. Because what engages people is understanding. Even… You go to a concert…
DK: Yeah. When, you think about if the goal is to get kids jumping, then yeah, do louder and more… [laughter] But like as if that’s some like, “Oh great, we’ve got… Our problem’s solved. We’ve done it.”
BK: Yes, success.
DK: But that’s not what we’re aiming at.
BK: That’s not the aim. The aim is for them to grasp what God has done for them in Jesus Christ, which only the Holy Spirit could do. But if we don’t present it, then they’re not gonna have the opportunity to respond to it.
DK: One thing I would think about too is singing the same songs again and again, over a period of time. So it’s…
BK: Repeating songs.
DK: I think about a song like “Christ is Mine Forevermore” by CityAlight, “Mine are days that God has numbered. I was made to walk with thee… ”
BK: Yes, him.
DK: “But I look for worldly treasures and forsake the king of kings.”
BK: Yes.
DK: And it’s very clear what it’s about, it’s understandable, but I want that to be ringing in kids’ ears.
BK: Yes.
DZ: Absolutely.
DK: And so we’re gonna sing “Oh Lord, my rock and my redeemer, greatest treasure of my longing soul, my song when enemies surround me,” I mean, lines like that, it’s like, I want those lines in these kids’ heads. And I’ve got the opportunity to do that. Whether they’re singing or not, they’re around it.
BK: Yep.
DK: And so if we repeat those songs, week after week, month after month…
BK: Great point.
DK: It’s gonna build those words into these kids’ minds.
DZ: Yeah, well said.
BK: And these… Some of the hymns. “My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus’s blood and righteousness.” It’s just like… It doesn’t have to be complicated. I’m trying to think… “Be thou my vision, oh Lord of my heart, naught be all else to me… ”
DK: That’s a little more complicated.
BK: That’s a little more complicated.
DK: But the idea that we shouldn’t shy away, we shouldn’t be looking for simplicity for simplicity’s sake.
BK: Yes.
DZ: Absolutely.
DK: We should be very intentional about the truth that we’re building into teenagers. And it’s a wonderful opportunity and…
[pause]
DZ: You know what, I knew that would happen.
BK: You knew that would happen? How is that possible? Alright, I’m… That’s gonna stop in any second, any moment now.
DK: Is it an alarm?
BK: No, it’s a phone call. [laughter]
DK: You can’t ignore it?
BK: Oh, I can. Alright. Sorry about that guys.
DZ: No worries.
BK: Sorry about that. Hey, I try to turn off everything for these podcasts, but sometimes you just don’t make it.
DZ: I was gonna say that the theology that was given to me through my dad’s church where I wasn’t saved, came not only in preaching, but in the songs that we sang. And those, like Devon was saying, those were planting seeds in me for years and years and years. And I remember part of my conversion story was I went to our high school gathering and we were singing a song, and I remember in that moment that God was illuminating my eyes. I remember saying, “I can’t sing these lyrics. My life doesn’t reflect this.” And that was the moment of conversion where, “I was blind and now I see.” And so you’re absolutely right, you’re giving these kids theology through your songs. And it doesn’t have to be all heady. There’s actually really great upbeat songs that have great theology in them. It’s not just a tempo thing. It’s the theme and the gospel. And songs that are gonna help these kids, they’re so much brighter than we think they are, these rich hymns, actually build into them. They’re suffering to an extent, they’re struggling.
DK: And oftentimes, I mean, the younger we are, the more amplified our trials are. I mean, it seems like the world is ending when this girl doesn’t like me. It’s like… I mean, that is the smallest problem you’ll ever face, but in that moment, it seems like I have no hope, when what an opportunity to point those kids to the hope they have in Jesus.
DZ: Yeah, yeah absolutely.
BK: And I think a lot of the things you do say will be contrasts. So you’re saying, “O Lord, my rock and my redeemer, greatest treasure of my longing soul,” “We just sang that line and you know what? That’s not true for a lot of us here, that he’s the greatest treasure of our longing soul.” What is your greatest treasure? What is the thing you want the most? You know, in the end, that’s not gonna serve you. That’s not going to produce what only Jesus can give you. So we’re gonna take a moment to pray… And whenever… I mean, every meeting is an opportunity to impress the gospel on people’s lives, not in the way of, “You should be jumping up and down about this.” But, “This could really change your life”
DK: Respond, respond already!
BK: Yes. Well, that was my approach.
DK: And I think I’d just encourage the person leading this team to lead them in why we’re doing what we’re doing. And…
BK: Yeah, so let’s talk about that, how to lead your team.
DK: So we want them to… We want these kids to see God in the gospel, and so that’s what we’re about. And so that’s… Everything that we’re doing is meant to serve those ends and preparing them and acknowledging. You know what, kids are gonna be disengaged and disinterested. They might turn their backs on us. They’re dead in their sins and they need the grace of God. And so we wanna pray for them. And then I think I would just encourage a sincerity. The ethos of the day oftentimes is authenticity, and sincerity, and just be real. And so be real.
DK: Be those who have been so affected by what God has done for them in Jesus Christ, that it shows on their faces, and it shows in the instruments they’re playing, and the songs you’re singing, and the way they’re interacting with these kids, and just encourage that. And then be in it for the long haul, and just this will be thankless. I mean, none of these kids are gonna come up to you afterwards and say, “Oh, that was awesome. That was so great.” But we can… I mean, because of what we do, none of them are gonna do that. But by the grace of God, he’s going to save some of those kids and there will come a time… I mean like, what you just mentioned, just where the Lord uses the truth that was planted in their hearts to save them. And what an opportunity to just play a small part in that.
DZ: Yeah and that’s a good point. I mean, the people… When I was dead, the people that were the most attractive to me were the people that had joy in just their walk with the Lord. And less of the hammer of, “Change, change, change.” And not to say that you can’t speak into these teens, but the people that just genuinely loved the Lord, and it just poured out of them, was attractive to me. I’m just like, “Well, I don’t have that joy.”
DK: Yeah. No, it’s like that, just that we should be those that have… Are living out that category of astonished witness. We are… I’m so amazed that God saved me. And how can that not just ooze out of me in everything that I do and in everything that I say? That’s amazing. The God of the universe has chosen to save me by the blood of his son and then join me to his body. It’s insane.
BK: Yeah, it is, it is.
DK: It’s incredible. And so let’s just… Let that shine forth.
BK: “Joy unspeakable, full of glory.”
DK: Yeah. And so, as we’re doing that, we recognize we’re not the point. We’re not trying to get these kids to look at us. We’re trying to… We’re just pointers. We’re trying to get these kids to just look to Him.
BK: Yes. And it’s the difference, as you’re talking David earlier, and then Dev you just mentioned it, it’s the difference between saying, “Join me in my enthusiasm and look where I’m looking.”
DK: Yep.
DZ: Yep.
BK: Those are two different things.
DZ: Totally.
BK: Get excited.
DK: Let’s get hyped.
BK: Yes. And no, that’s not what we’re doing. Just look at what I’m looking at, see what I’m seeing. And again, only the Holy Spirit can actually bring a dead person spiritually, to life. But he does it through the simple means of proclaiming the gospel. And we’re helping those teenagers make those connections. And you mentioned something too earlier, Dev, about praying and I wanted to re-emphasize that. I think for the team to… For them to get together either before the meeting or during the week, or maybe in their personal times, whenever, but to pray for the students by name. That not only does something in your soul, it builds your faith that God could save them, but it’s the way God works. He works through the prayers of his people. And God does answer those prayers. So I wouldn’t put all our our eggs in the basket of, “We gotta make this meeting really great.” No, no, just humble yourself and say, “Lord, we can’t do a thing to save these kids, but we know that they would be eternally better off if they came to know you. And we’re in a state where as we sang these songs and had these meetings, they were rejoicing and entering into it.” So, yeah, so pray for your kids.
DK: That one practically, if you’re serving with a team and it’s a consistent team or whatever, you could have… Split up those 120 kids into groups of 20. And so, you’ve got one person praying for 20 people for this month or for this week, and the other person praying for the other 20 people. And just get people onboard with what God’s called us to do. And then I think being aware, I think it gets back to knowing why we’re doing this. And then maybe I would encourage, in this context, maybe just strip away some of that excess and those things that are becoming a burden but aren’t really contributing to why we’re doing what we’re doing. And so there could be lots of time spent on the production side of things that, you know what, we probably don’t need to be spending all this time on this production.
BK: When you think of how many kids have gotten saved at camp or something, where it might be around a campfire, it might be… It’s in a more intimate setting, more… You don’t have the big production and there’s just… People are normal.
DK: So use a bonfire.
BK: Use a bonfire.
DK: Start a bonfire
DZ: Every week.
[laughter]
DK: That is my point. Alright.
DZ: Well, I want to… I wanna just encourage this man who submitted this question, just to keep going. This previous Sunday, CJ preached about evangelism and that you might be in a long chain of people, before you and after you, that are investing in these kids. And so to keep going, don’t lose heart. Be encouraged that you are faithfully planting seeds. You have no idea what God’s gonna do.
BK: Yeah, the message on Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8, and he just talked about how this eunuch was going to Jerusalem, he’s a God-fearing man. But it wasn’t until Philip came and came alongside him, he was reading Isaiah 53 and shared… The eunuch asked him, “What is this about? Is this about himself or somebody else?” And Philip was able to lead him to Christ, but he was just one part of that chain. And we don’t know where we stand in that. So I thank God for his faithfulness and encourage all those of you who work with teens to not put your hope in worldly means for changing their hearts. Put your hope in the word of God, the gospel, which is the power of God, and His Spirit working through us.
DK: Amen.
DZ: Amen. Thank you for joining us.
