Colin Buchanan: you can learn from everyone you co-write with, because it’s the nature of the reach that you get that’s impossible. I think it’s like as a child, when you used to hold a pole and swing around it, but if you held onto a friend and swung around the surface area that you cover, and I think of songwriting like that, you put three people together and suddenly you’ve got this massive circumference of ground and experience and skill
David Zimmer: Hello and welcome to the Sound Plus Doctrine podcast. My name is David Zimmer.
Bob Kauflin: My name is Bob Kauflin. And we have a very special guest with us today.
DZ: Very special.
BK: By the name of Colin Buchanan. Colin, welcome to the Sound Plus Doctrine Podcast ’cause I know you’ve been wanting to come for some years.
CB: Hello I have. Hello Bob and hello, David.
[laughter]
BK: Colin is…
CB: All I’ve said is hello.
BK: He’s from the Bronx. No, just kidding, he’s from Australia. But you weren’t originally from Australia.
DZ: I just learned this. You sound like such an Aussie.
BK: But you’re not really.
CB: No, I’ve had 54 years to develop this cultured accent.
[laughter]
BK: Very much so.
CB: Yes. Yes. I was born in Dublin and my family immigrated and when I was six years old.
BK: So do you tell people you’re Irish or do you tell people you’re Australian?
CB: I say I was born in Ireland.
BK: Oh, that makes sense.
CB: People are interested to discover that fact. And I think because they’re part of the acclimatization process of a child in a public school, is try and fit in as quickly as possible. And sound like everyone else if you possibly can. So yeah. Yeah. And I’ve had a, written a lot of songs that are quintessentially Australian too. So I’ve become associated, it’s a bit more of a surprise to discover that I’m a ring in. I’m a migrant.
[laughter]
BK: We won’t go there. So we should tell people who are starting to check out now wondering, what is this is about?
DZ: Yeah. Who is this guy.
BK: Who is Colin Buchanan? We first met you at the Sing! Conference. The Getty Sing! Conference. A number of years ago. And just for, I think someone else might have set it up. I can’t remember. We thought an opportunity to meet with Colin Buchanan because you, where we learned about you was first time I ever saw you was on a video City Alight video, “Jesus Strong and Kind.” And I thought, where did they get this old guy from? [laughter] And he seems to be enjoying it so much, but that’s I think where a lot of people would know me talking about an old guy. I realize there’s some, a little bit of contradiction there where we’ll get into that, how that all happened. But we sat down with you at lunch, at the Sing! Conference and just had a wonderful, wonderful time. We found a man of like spirit, of very funny, you are just one of the funniest humans that I’ve met in email and in person and but a deep thinker and one who you’ve been described to us as the Mr. Rogers of Australia, which to Americans would…
DZ: How do you feel about that?
BK: That’s quite impressive.
CB: It’s a big calling card.
BK: Meaning that you have influenced a generation of children. So we’re going to get into that too. But before we do tell us about your family.
CB: I’m married to Robin, and we have four kids and we have four grandchildren.
BK: Nice.
CB: So, yeah. Which is a delightful development.
BK: It is [laughter] And are they near you? ’cause that’s very important that they be near you?
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Well, my son and daughter-in-law and two grandchildren until just weeks ago were about as far as you can get from where we are. They were in Leeds in England. And he took a job and rang my wife up to give her the news that he’s taken a job in Sydney and she was driving at the time. She nearly crashed the car.
[laughter]
DZ: That’s so great.
CB: So that’s very exciting. So they’re all, they’re currently in the same, not just the same postcode, the same house. And we have a son and daughter-in-law who are in the same postcode, and then another two that are within a half hour, 40-minute drive of us, which is delightful. So.
BK: That is delightful.
DZ: That’s great.
CB: Yeah. That’s a real blessing.
BK: All right. So, while most people would know you as a writer of children’s songs, you’ve also done some stuff with the CityAlight album. Simple what was it? Young and Old. I can’t remember.
DZ: Simple songs. Yeah.
BK: Simple songs.
CB: Simple Songs for For All Ages.
BK: Yes a wonderful album. You were on that as well. So people might think, ah, Colins he writes children’s songs, but you, that’s not where you started. Your musical career did not start with children’s songs. True?
CB: No, no. Sorry. Yes. True. No, it did not.
BK: Okay. Thank you. [laughter] Yes. And so tell us about it.
CB: For the benefit of the jury, [laughter] please explain. Well, I found one of the greatest assets to writing children’s songs is having being a child.
[laughter]
BK: Thank you.
CB: Which should qualify all of us.
BK: It should, but it doesn’t.
DZ: But it doesn’t.
BK: I can assure you.
CB: But it does, it certainly has helped to remember what it’s like to be a child. That’s, I think that’s, but the one day I was learning the guitar and I was practicing to lead some singings, we were in a youth group in a Presbyterian church in Sydney, and that had a vacancy. After the Reverend Iain Murray, who’s well known to many he’s the historian. He was the minister at our church. And guitars were not welcome. [laughter] in public worship. And when he left guitars were just snuck in before the service.
BK: That’s so wrong.
CB: And some…
BK: We’re just waiting for you to go, and then we can bring in the guitars. Understood.
CB: Great. Many blessings came through the ministry of Iain Murray. And a little like some of the things that happened in childhood where your parents, you realize later, ah, that was very, very helpful. And I think at the time, he’s a man of greats substance and when you’re a teenager, you probably want to be more fireworks [laughter] But, just as an aside, Iain Murray, and this is something I picked up about kid’s music. He would do the children’s talk and the only difference between the children’s talk and his sermon was about 50 minutes. And the fact that one of them started with boys and girls.
[laughter]
CB: But can I say that it set a precedent because he’s such a substantial Bible teacher. That he was not afraid to, if you like, muck out the stables. That he stepped into the role of teaching the children. And did that with great, seriousness and substance.
DZ: That’s awesome.
CB: And some gravity. Yeah. Yeah. Which was a great model for me. You don’t muck around with the Bible just because you’re teaching little children.
BK: Which we’ll get into during this podcast or the next one.
CB: But I haven’t answered the question.
DZ: No, you haven’t.
BK: But I expect that.
CB: But these…
BK: We just found our experience with you that when we ask you a question, you don’t answer it.
CB: No, don’t answer it.
BK: But then we come back to it.
CB: But I intrigue myself. Which is what this is all about.
[laughter]
BK: Okay. So…
CB: I looked at the camera, oh no.
DZ: Don’t look at the camera.
CB: I’ll start again.
BK: How old were you when this happened? You were asked to play guitar?
CB: I guess so, a teenager about 17.
BK: Okay. So you’re getting into leading for children at this age.
CB: Well the thing was, these friends, played a song to me. One of these rehearsals that we had, we didn’t call it rehearsal. We practice at Margie’s Place is what we called it. And, I said, that’s a nice song. And they said, yeah, we wrote it last week.
BK: What?
CB: And yeah, my eyes popped out of my head. ’cause it was “the Lord is mighty he’ll rejoice over you, his song, he’s mighty to save.” It’s a beautiful song. And I was so just delighted and intrigued and just invigorated by the thought that they wrote it, that to be in the presence of writing. Yeah. It was.
BK: That is what you were thinking, I wanna do that.
CB: Yeah. I was just, and so I started, and the first songs that I was writing were for children. Just, I was teaching Sunday school. And, like I say, the seriousness about approaching the Bible was something that was in our church, and so, yeah, we were seeking to choose songs that had biblical substance and probably the easiest entry, point was memory verses.
BK: Yes.
CB: So early on I’d just put verses to music to help me learn them as much as anything else.
BK: Yes. It’s a powerful tool. So you’ve done, now, we were talking about this earlier, some 25 albums for kids. And that’s when we talk about being the Mr. Rogers of Australia. It’s just the impact of those albums.
DZ: Yeah.
BK: I’ve talked to people from Australia who said, yeah, if you were a child during the ’90s or early 2000, that period, you know Colin Buchanan. So, but that was not your, those were not your first recordings, is that right?
CB: No, that’s correct. Yeah.
BK: Okay. So here’s where it gets…
CB: It’s confusing.
BK: It’s very confusing.
CB: This is a very confusing podcast.
BK: But we’ve come to expect that from you. So that’s not a problem. So you’re learning about the power of songs for kids in the church.
CB: Yep.
BK: But then you do this other kind of music.
CB: Well, with no thought of a career. Just, the thought of, I play guitar and I sing in church and Sunday School and then youth group, which was just two or three guitars. And you’d sit up the back of the two people who knew all the chords and play half the chords. And then, over time you’d get three quarters of the chords. And, so I and if you’ve seen me play guitar, you’d say he’s still not at 100 not quite at 100% yet.
[laughter]
BK: We would never put you in the front.
[laughter]
CB: No. [laughter] But, so I had no thought of career, it was, but I was accumulating songs. And, in fact earlier we were talking about, PowerPoints and so forth, and I accumulated a bunch of, I was teaching at a Christian school as well, so that sort of kept building repertoire as well. There were more memory verse to learn and more things to write songs about. And I had a collection of cardboard that I’d written the songs on and that, they traveled with me. They had little holes in the top so I could hang them up. [laughter] And they… My little.
BK: You were pushing the edge, pushing the envelope on technology.
DZ: Yeah technology.
[laughter]
CB: Yeah. But, so I left teaching after two years. I did love teaching. And I’m really grateful actually, that I’ve had a connection to kids and to teaching that remained even though I left formal teaching, which I’m really grateful for. And probably at a good time, because I think I probably would’ve, I keep going to schools and thinking, yeah, I think that’s the person who would’ve sacked me. [laughter] You can’t… We’d read a chapter of a book every day and just after their morning tea break, and a few times, again, oh, I think we’ll read another chapter. It’s a bit exciting. And we’d get through to lunch and, the kids would be lying on the floor. [laughter] just lost in a storybook. And I think that’s a great thing for kids to do, but you’re not allowed to do that as a teacher.
BK: Yeah.
CB: So I just did don’t… I got outta teaching and went to live in a little Christian community. I’m trying to compress this ’cause it is fascinating to me. And.
[laughter]
BK: To us as well.
DZ: Yes.
BK: Most of it.
[laughter]
CB: The motivation for that was that we just wanted to give our faith some more legs. Our traditional, church, Presbyterian church had given us a lot of head knowledge, a lot of theology, and we were grateful for that. But we wanted sort of on the ground, and this was a cross-denominational… Can I just say that Bob has just attempted, he knows I’m a pedobaptist and he has attempted to give me full immersion. I can’t believe that you brought up baptism when I was talking about…
DZ: He’s spilled for the first time ever Colin.
BK: We’re just going to leave it there.
CB: I can tell how nervous he is. And I’m catching his reflection in the water as well. Two Bob Kauflin’s is
DZ: too many.
BK: People would say one is enough but too many. Sorry. Yeah.
DZ: Go on. Before you were really interrupted.
BK: Yes. We’ll pick up our story.
DZ: Okay. Go ahead.
CB: We left our hero.
BK: Yes.
CB: Heading for the Outback of New South Wales. This is nine hours from Sydney flat desert, and there’s a little Christian community just outside of a little town there. Discipleship Training Center. And, I was challenged to seek first the Kingdom of God by just spending two years there. And I taught in a tiny little nine kid school.
BK: In what year was this?
CB: 1988.
BK: Okay.
CB: And my wife worked in the office, Robin, and we just, one of their phrases was, let your natural life be spiritual and your spiritual life be natural And and that was just, we weren’t on a perfect theological connection, but that did us the world of good. Because there are traditions and practices that had become sort of blind spots, I think, in our conservative approach. And so we locked horns sometimes, but when, actually when I got out it sounds like prison. When we finished Cornerstone as known I went on a quest to find where in reformed theology is this devotional day to day on the ground life. Where do I find that? Because it must be there. Yeah. Theology is so rich. And that took me on a quest interestingly to “Quest for Godliness” Packer’s book.
DZ: Yes. J.I. Packer.
CB: We’re onto Packer already. And and that book was a really important moment of seeing this life-wide, pushing down of this theology into just every corner ’cause the book is about the richness of the life of the Puritans, the work life, the worship life, the education life, the intellectual life. Yeah. Family life. And so I’m very grateful for that time at Cornerstone. But what I did there was essentially with notebook and pen journal my experiences in the Outback, the Bush as we call it in Australia, by writing songs. I’d go to the local agricultural show and write a song about that and made a character and wrote a song about him.
BK: I knew this was going to tie into the question I asked you eventually. And there it is [laughter] I was just trying to, how he’s going to get.
CB: Is he going to land this [laughter] or is this another crash? Is this another Colin crash? Is Colin spilling his figurative drink while I spill my literal drink.
BK: That’s exactly right.
CB: And so I, so that was.
BK: This isn’t going to ruin the table, is it.
CB: That.
DZ: No.
BK: Okay, great.
CB: That opened the door. Well.
BK: So you’re writing songs about what you see in the community.
CB: For no reason other than, I like to call them songs for no reason. And I made cassettes that people would copy them off and I’d take to tape machine and they’d play them on the tractor and they’d say, no, a friend wants a copy of that. And then someone said, you should enter the Tamworth Country Music Festival, which was sort of, it’s not quite Nashville, but it’s the hub of country music in Australia. And they have a big festival every January.
BK: And country music is big in Australia.
CB: Well, it’s not huge.
BK: It’s not.
CB: But Australia is big. And it’s very sparsely populated. And so if you said in terms of landmass, country music fans [laughter] occupy a vast part of Australia.
BK: Different, different ways of figuring out the numbers.
CB: They’ve each got 10,000 square kilometers.
BK: There are well-known country singers who I can’t remember right now.
CB: Keith Urban being the most notable there. And I did tour actually early on in my country career.
BK: I didn’t know that.
CB: Let me compact.
BK: You’re more famous than we thought.
CB: Let me compact the story and say the Lord opened the doors to get into country music, which was completely unexpected. I gave a cassette to a guy in a band who came through the town I was living in the following year, and said, look, I write some songs and you would know people giving you.
BK: Yes, yes.
CB: Not cassettes now, but I’ve got songs and I only did twice to two artists. And the first one said, most of the stuff we get is rubbish.
[laughter]
BK: That was after he heard it or before?
CB: Before he heard it.
DZ: Okay. Good.
CB: And he didn’t write back, but his tour manager wrote back and said, we listened in the car and we liked ‘em. And he, John Williamson was his name, and he’s one of the top sort of country artist, and the other was a band. And this particular fellow wrote back to me and said, I’d love to produce a record for you if you’re interested. I played it to my publisher, who I’ve been signed to for 34 years. And and they liked it. And I played at a record company and they liked it. So there wasn’t sort of cigars and deals on the table it was a lot of hard work. In fact, at this country music festival, Robin we were, we met this guy and he turned up in the bummiest old car, and Robin thought, ah, I think I’m getting an education of the prospects of Colin’s musical life.
BK: These are the kind of guys who are interesting my husband, he’s going nowhere.
[laughter]
CB: But then I did win a number of country music awards. And after the first, the best new talent award I went on the road for a tour with Keith Urban there.
BK: That was fantastic, that was well done. Condensed to the point. That’s great.
CB: Yeah. I don’t know if that, so all of that, this is turned into a sort of country music Bush podcast, but…
BK: I wouldn’t say that.
CB: But that’s all sitting on top of, and it’s not, in fact, it’s not sitting on top of, it’s sort of completely integrated into this whole experience of knowing Christ and being in his church and wanting to grow. And I think one of the best things in a music career would have to be to know that there was a point sitting on the veranda with Lorie Mcintosh who ran the community. And he said, it seems to me if you just said, I’m gonna seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness by just spending, taking two years out of your life, it’d be an adventure. It can’t, at worst. And what could possibly, something, it might be a lot more than that. And well that was the gateway. I didn’t know it at the time into a career in music. And so at every point. The typical gateway is hours jamming and going on the road and yes. Couch surfing or, being ambitious in that respect. And I say there is something in the act of standing on a stage that I suppose is in essence ambitious. Even the most reluctant performers are saying…
BK: Well, you wanna show people something. That’s right. And it could be good or bad, could be self-focused or someone else.
CB: Yeah, yeah. But so I just thought I’m here because yeah, the Lord opened the doors. That’s, it’s not a particularly original or profound phrase, but I’ve just found myself saying that over the years, and it helps temper the sorts of opportunities that might come your way or that you might hope would come your way or that come at a certain cost. You think, well, the Lord opens the doors. So letting what he intends for your life and your family to dictate the way that I’ve embraced those decisions has been really helpful to think. Well he opens the doors. He did open the doors. He didn’t need to, he might choose to shut them.
BK: Well, and that’s evident in the way you relate. One of the things that I think affected us when we had lunch at Sing! Was just your lack of that ambition, Sing! Is an amazing conference. There are people from all over the world, and it’s a place to network. It’s a place to, experience the, all the good things that are happening, but you weren’t there to make it happen. You were there just to enjoy, to learn to do what you were asked to do, and it was just a, just so refreshing. And so that’s just evident, in the way you come across to people, the way you live your life. It’s not about what people think of you. It’s more about who people think of Christ about their lives and it’s beautiful.
DZ: Yeah. That’s great.
CB: Well, I can say it was a great encouragement to me to be in that lunch and it’s, there is something fatiguing about the energy of all that stuff [laughter] And so it was, I think, in the same way that I’m able to say the Lord opened the doors and because Sovereign Grace has a network of churches, there’s that sort of, that’s the gateway into music. Is the local church. And I mean, I would would hate anyone to think, oh, well, I’m having a little crack at the Getty because, organization because they’re resourcing churches. Remarkably. But they’re not a church. And so they’re doing that in a different sort of structure in a different way. And so there was something just, ah, in that experience of just talking about music together and what draws you and…
DZ: And serving our local churches, our yeah. Our family of churches. Yeah.
BK: Which led us, let me make sure we tied up that string of you did country music. How many country albums have you done?
CB: There’s I think six country albums.
BK: Okay six. And you have a new one coming out? This is like a promo now. Promos podcast. You have a new album coming out Colin, so tell us…
DZ: Tell us briefly about it.
[laughter]
CB: It’s called Memory Town.
BK: Memory Town.
CB: So you see how I did that all.
DZ: Yes. That was very nice.
CB: Of Course. Memory Town. I’ve just been accumulating many, many songs because I still write songs for no reason. And I just, that part of my life, I just love that. And I just wanted to keep something of that still going. So, it’s a country album for songs and stories is my thing in some ways. Maybe it, I say folk, but there’s a, it’s a bit more folk. Okay folk. But yeah. It’s got that… On the flight into this wonderful city of Louisville while someone was breaking my guitar in the luggage hold. I was watching Steve Earle perform a tribute to Guy Clark. And on the, and just the power of song and the story is just always found so compelling.
DZ: That’s awesome.
BK: I love that you write just because you want to write, because there’s something in you that says it’s got to get out and you’re not doing it to make the next career move. It’s just what you believe God has gifted you to do. You love doing it, and so you do it. So we were so encouraged by our meeting with you that when we worked on our Knowing God album, which was based on J. I. Packer’s book, “Knowing God” 50th anniversary was 2023, we reached out to you and said, Hey Colin, would you be interested in writing for this project? And surprise of surprise you said, sure.
CB: Yeah. Well I thank you for asking me.
BK: Yeah, absolutely.
DZ: Yes, absolutely.
BK: And you wrote a song.
DZ: A great song.
BK: Jesus, Our Judge and Our Savior. What was your thinking on that, which ended up being on the album, which we ended up having a small part in.
CB: Yeah, yeah. Which is a nice part of the story ’cause it, friendship and collaboration, it sort of if you like, sort of bled into that, yes, creating the song, which I think is wonderful to have a creative collaboration like that. I’d relatively recently re-listened to Knowing God and before the call came out and so I thought…
BK: The Lord preparing you. For this project.
CB: This very project.
BK: It is.
[laughter]
CB: And I don’t feel I want to re-read the book again. I think I’ll take a more scientific approach to what I might write a song about. So I closed my eyes, and I actually literally did this, and you don’t need to say actually and literally at all.
BK: You don’t, it’s somewhat redundant.
CB: They are extraneous, yeah, redundant words. Opened it up, and the Lord in his wisdom, and perhaps with a little wry smile, said, well, okay, clever guy. I’ll give you God the Judge. What’ll you do with that? So I read the chapter, and the end of the chapter almost reads like a song.
DZ: Yes, it does.
CB: It says, words to the effect of, how will we respond to this? Do you want to quote it? In fact, I’ve got…
BK: Yes, pull it out.
CB: I happen to have a beautiful…
DZ: Wow. In our Knowing God booklet. CD booklet. There you go.
CB: Or the KGB, as it’s known.
[laughter]
BK: We don’t really… Not anymore.
CB: I can’t find the song in here.
BK: What were you going to say?
CB: I was going to say…
DZ: He was going to give the Packer quote. Yeah.
BK: Have you proofread this? I’ve got a feeling the song’s not in there.
DZ: It’s in there.
BK: We tried to put it in there.
CB: The quote, at the end of the chapter, it says something along the lines of, how are we to respond to this? We had a call on our coming judge to be our present savior. And it’s just, it’s, and I mean, that’s the sort of teaching that has the biblical depth. I mean, the book is full of it. It’s just got this biblical and theological depth. So it states the scripture and it states the truths and it states the truth back into the scripture. It’s just a, but then it has this, Packer had this capacity to just bring it to the heart. And…
BK: Here’s the quote.
CB: Okay, stand by.
BK: “Paul refers to the fact that we must all appear before Christ’s judgment seat as the terror of the Lord, [King James.] And while he might, Jesus the Lord, like his father is holy and pure, we are neither. We live under his eye. He knows our secrets. And on judgment day, the whole of our past life will be played back as it were before him and brought under review. If we know ourselves at all, we know we are not fit to face him. What then are we to do?” Such a compelling picture. You are in trouble. “The New Testament answer is call on the coming judge to be your present savior. As judge, he is the law, but as savior, he is the gospel. Run from him now and you will meet him as judge then and without hope. Seek him now and you will find him for he that seeketh findeth. And you will then discover that you are looking forward to that future meeting with joy, knowing that there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” Such a great gospel. So you put that in a song.
CB: And I think the fact that our biggest problem is our only solution. Our biggest problem is the righteousness and holiness and judgment and wrath of God. And he provides the solution to our biggest problem. And that just plays, Packer puts it so, that’s me going down to Lowe’s and getting some three inch nails and a bit of three by two, hammering it together. He does it with such poetry and nuance and yeah, beauty. I remember I referred to “The Quest For Godliness” and I was picked up for a gig by a fellow who said, I’ve got to go and preach in church.
CB: And he was expecting me to, because I was a Christian musician, he was expecting a certain type. And he was the manager of a Christian bookstore. So I was expecting a certain type. And he said, do you read? And I said, yeah. What are you reading? Quest for Godliness by Packer. And he said, I’m thinking, he told me later, I’m thinking, well, he’s not that sort of musician I was expecting.
CB: I said, so what are you preaching? I say, were you preaching tonight? He said, yeah. What are you preaching on? The wrath of God. I’m thinking, well, he’s not the sort of Christian [laughter] And I remember from that night, a little church, little Baptist church, and he preached on the wrath of God. And I thought, when you preach a gospel sermon on the wrath of God, clear the aisle, because someone’s going to want to do backflips down that aisle because the gospel is such good news. And it just, I like to think, I feel like the bigger God gets, just the better everything gets. The better the gospel gets, the bigger God gets. And I feel sometimes we sort of inflate the gospel and often we inflate it with a reference to our own need and nothing meets our need more than the gospel.
CB: But it seems counterintuitive to want people to feel a bigger sense of the gospel by just giving them a bigger sense of God and then dropping the gospel into that. And that’s what Packer does so beautifully in that.
BK: Well, you did it beautifully in the song and we thought it was almost there. So we thought we wanted to help you. So we flew to Australia to try. We don’t usually do this for songwriters, but we thought, you know what? Let’s just go to Australia.
CB: You got in the Sovereign Grace Corporate byplane.
DZ: Oh, right. Yeah.
BK: Yeah. Yes. But I will never forget how…
CB: Put on the leather hat. That’s right. And they took off and landed.
DZ: This is why we can’t do a podcast.
CB: They landed on like, what is it? 47 Pacific Islands on the way to Australia. Incredible.
BK: I will never forget how…
CB: Getting bogged on the beach in New Calopha.
BK: How gracious you were. We were in one of the homes there. We have two churches in Australia, in Sydney, and Lord willing more in the future. But we’re there, and just at piano, and just you’re playing a song. We thought, yeah, maybe this little change. And you were just so gracious to say, sure guys, yeah, a little change in the melody there. Use those words differently. Yeah, yeah, sure. Okay, let’s try it like that. It was so easy. And not… That’s hard to do. When you write a song, and two guys you don’t know that well are there saying, yeah, I think it could be here, better here. This could be clearer, this could be… And you’re like, yeah, yeah, let’s try that. That’s good. And we love the song, and people have really been encouraging about the song. So we’re just thrilled that it’s on the album.
CB: Well, that is encouraging. I like to say, I will… Yeah, you can learn from everyone you co-write with, because it’s the nature of the reach that you get that’s impossible. I think it’s like as a child, when you used to hold a pole and swing around it, but if you held onto a friend and swung around the surface area that you cover, and I think of songwriting like that, you put three people together and suddenly you’ve got this massive circumference of ground and experience and skill and yeah, and your particular consciousness of what you hope for the project and your familiarity with the intent of the book, and then just that whole, you eat and breathe congregational singing. So there’s phrases and just, I was loving learning from you guys.
BK: Great, glad you learned something.
CB: Yeah, and I’m…
CB: About time.
[laughter]
BK: We’re gonna learn more in our next podcast with you.
CB: Really?
DZ: Yes.
BK: Yeah, we’re gonna have another one, where we’re gonna…
CB: It’s a double shot.
BK: It is a double shot.
CB: Double shot Tuesday.
[laughter]
BK: Where we’re going to talk more about the whole children’s songs and talk to those who work with children, and just, ’cause your thoughts on that are so deep, so profound, so biblical, so church-oriented, and we can’t wait to talk about those things.
CB: Great.
BK: So till do you have any last words, parting words?
CB: Well, Bob may spill his drink again, so I’d tune in.
DZ: Spill all, next podcast.
CB: Yeah, Colin Buchanan is gonna spill it all.
BK: Well, we have enjoyed being together, and hope you’ve enjoyed being with us.
DZ: Yeah, thanks for being with us.
