David Zimmer: Hello, and welcome to the Sound + Doctrine podcast. My name is David Zimmer.
Bob Kauflin: My name is Bob Kauflin. And what a joy it is to be together again.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: Today we are talking about, well, this is the fourth part in our four-part series. Although, as I mentioned the last time, we are not calling it a series because no one ever listens to the other parts of this series. So we’ve done hard conversations, that’s the series, hard conversations with your pastor, hard conversations with your team, hard conversations with your church members. Today, do you want to…
David Zimmer: This is probably going to be my favorite one.
Bob Kauflin: Really?
David Zimmer: Hard Conversations With Yourself.
Bob Kauflin: Okay, good.
David Zimmer: Because…
Bob Kauflin: Because you have a hard time talking to yourself?
David Zimmer: Truly, yes. No, but so often we are looking outside of ourself to fix the problems.
Bob Kauflin: It’s someone else’s fault.
David Zimmer: All of us. But if I know myself, it typically always is coming back to what is happening in my life that is keeping everything challenging around me.
Bob Kauflin: This is really where we should have started, but we thought…
David Zimmer: We saved the best for last.
Bob Kauflin: Let’s end with it. Yeah, and before… This could be hard conversations with the Lord. Obviously, if you’re having hard conversations with yourself, it should be in the Lord’s presence, in view of the Lord. That’s what the psalmists do. They have hard conversations with themselves all the time, but it’s always in light of who the Lord is, what He said.
David Zimmer: Yes.
Bob Kauflin: But before we dive in, we just want to thank those who are listening who are serving their churches, because these are going to be some hard conversations, maybe harder than some of the others. When you have to have to talk to someone else, well, okay, great, I can handle that. But when it’s with you, we tend to have blind spots. So these are going to be, by the Lord’s mercy and grace, the Spirit’s working, these will get at some of the things that we might be blind to. But before we get into it, wherever you serve, whether you’re in a small church or a big church, whether you’re part of the team or the leader, whether you’re doing it by yourself or you’re part of a big team, whatever ways you serve, thank you, because God sees it. A lot of times, we’ll make sacrifices that no one sees, but God sees them. I think of this verse in Hebrews 6, verse 10, “For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for His name and serving the saints as you still do.”
Bob Kauflin: Just love that. That’s from the Lord Himself. He doesn’t overlook the work that you do and the love that you’ve shown for His name and serving the saints. So thank you. Now, we want to have some hard conversations with ourselves. And the first one, well, actually, even before we dive in, I have two scriptures I want to share. One was Psalm 139, the end of that beautiful Psalm 139. David says, Search me, O God, and know my heart. Try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any grievous way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. So this is something that we’re called on to do. God, search me, know my thoughts. And then Psalm 19, I was just in this the other day, verse 12, who can discern his errors? Declare me innocent from hidden faults, hidden faults. Those are the ones we don’t see. Verse 13, keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins. Those are the ones we do see.
Bob Kauflin: Let them not have dominion over me. Then I shall be blameless and innocent of great transgression. Of course, the only one that could really be said of is Jesus. Let the words of my mouth and meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer. So this is what these questions are aimed at. Search my heart, know me, keep back your servant from presumptuous sins, declare me innocent from hidden faults. Lord, help me see these things. So the first is, if you’re a leader, if you’re part of a team, first hard conversation you might want to have yourself with is, are my private and public devotions consistent? Or is my private and public devotion consistent? Is what I do and the way I act in the congregation the same as what I do when I’m in front of people? Is my zeal for the Lord when I’m at home the same as my zeal for the Lord when I’m on the platform? What would you say to that? I have a list here, but I’d love to hear your thoughts.
David Zimmer: Yeah, I think a good question to ask is, am I drinking from shallow cisterns throughout the week?
Bob Kauflin: Jeremiah, 2.
David Zimmer: Yeah, to show up and feel like I have an abundance of wisdom and knowledge to share.
Bob Kauflin: Yes.
David Zimmer: We’re so distracted in our daily lives that it just looks like a completely… We look like two different people.
Bob Kauflin: Yes, yeah, and that’s the whole public-private thing. Is my… Do I… Is the time that I spend with… Do I spend time with the Lord? Maybe that’s the question.
David Zimmer: Yeah, first. Start there.
Bob Kauflin: Do I spend time with the Lord? And then how much time do I spend in God’s Word? How much of my spiritual time is just preparation for public ministry?
David Zimmer: Right, right.
Bob Kauflin: Rather than feeding my soul. A lot of leaders who fall get into that habit of just always preparing for something public. They don’t feel like they have to feed from the well, drink from the well themselves. No, I’m just the conduit. I’m just helping you drink from the well. But no, we have to drink from the well.
David Zimmer: Yeah. And I think the thing that I’m most convicted about is my personal prayer life. My personal… Is my dependence on the Lord showing up in my prayer life? I think I just read a Spurgeon quote, and I’m not going to get it anywhere close to right, but he said something like, “if you’re not praying, you’re a hypocrite.”
Bob Kauflin: That’s a good quote. That is exactly right.
David Zimmer: And it’s just so true. Yeah, it’s just so true. How would you have any dependence on the Lord on a Sunday if you have no dependence on him throughout the week in your prayer life and in your study of God’s Word?
Bob Kauflin: Yeah, and the Lord is regularly calling his people to account for acts of public devotion that aren’t backed up by private devotion.
David Zimmer: Right, are you going to Psalms?
Bob Kauflin: I’m going to Psalm 50. He says… “So he calls his people, he says, I will speak, I will testify against you, I’m your God, your God.’ And then he says in verse 16, to the wicked God says, “What right have you to recite my statutes or take my covenant on your lips? For you hate discipline. You cast my words behind you.” That’s what I think of when we don’t spend time in the word. We just cast God’s words behind us. We’re all about it on Sunday morning, but we just cast them behind us. If you see a thief, you’re pleased with him, and you keep company with adulterers. There’s not a real wall against sexual temptation, sinful temptation. You keep company with it. You give your mouth… And he goes on. He doesn’t let up. You give your mouth free reign for evil, and your tongue frames deceit. You just lie about things. You just, you aren’t telling the truth. You sit and speak against your brother. You slander your own mother’s son. You talk about people in the congregation, your family, your friends. You just say bad things about them. You know if they’re true. Maybe they might be
Bob Kauflin: True, but you are spreading that. You’re a slanderer. You’re a whisperer. You separate close friends. You’re private, and your public devotion are inconsistent. That’s the first question. Is my private and public devotion consistent? Here’s another hard question. Why do I do what I do? I think it’s helpful to say that mixed motives will always be an issue until we’re with Jesus. There’s no one who every moment of every day I am loving the Lord with all my heart, my soul, loving my neighbor as myself. So there will be mixed motives, but how do I view my serving? Is it a job? Is it a duty? Is it something I’m checking a box? Am I fulfilling my part, or am I hoping I’m noticed? Is it a platform to display my gifts, a stepping stone to some career or some recognition, something greater than what I’m doing now? Just why do I do what I do?
David Zimmer: Yeah. And I would add, how quick are you to repentance in all of these categories?
Bob Kauflin: Oh, very good. Yeah.
David Zimmer: I just am thinking, as we’re talking about mixed motives, and as we’re talking about our private devotion and our public devotion, I think it will be very easy to be discouraged. I mean, I’m discouraged when I read these things, because I realize I do have mixed motives. I do struggle in my private devotion. I do struggle in my prayer life. But I think the best question to ask is, how close am I? How quick am I to repentance? How quick am I to say, yeah, that isn’t right. Yeah, I did put my ego there first. I wasn’t thinking about it. So just as a disclaimer for all these categories, I think being quick to repent of ways we see, ways that the Spirit is showing us, like you’ve gotten your priorities mixed up.
Bob Kauflin: Yes, yes. And I think the Lord wants us to be encouraged by the fact that we’re moving in the right direction.
David Zimmer: Yeah, good.
Bob Kauflin: So, yeah, why I do what I do, not so great. Okay, even to realize that is the Spirit’s work.
David Zimmer: Yeah, great.
Bob Kauflin: And you can confess that, recognize that Jesus bore the sin of that on himself so that you could be forgiven. You are forgiven of it. So yeah, let’s move on from there. Let’s seek to do what we do in the name of Jesus for the glory of God. Yeah. That’s what we’re seeking to do. So that leads into the next question, which is, do I do what I do to serve or impress? So it’s tied into maybe a subset of the why do I do what I do, but do I do what I do to serve people, to serve the congregation, to serve the other members of the team, to serve my pastor, or do I do it to impress them? ” And that’s often revealed or maybe rooted in envy or comparison, where I’m just aware that other people might be better than I am, or think they’re better than I am, and I want to show they’re not.
David Zimmer: Oh, totally. I mean, not only on a personal level and on Sundays and your gatherings or whatever, but on a social media level. Now that…
Bob Kauflin: We’ve got to do a whole series on social media.
David Zimmer: Now that your gifting, your “gifting” is quantifiable through likes or shares or whatever it is, that wasn’t a thing. We just had to struggle with, hey, how am I presenting myself to my fellow church members or my friends or whatever? Now we have that on a global scale. Like, literally, the world has access to your whatever, your gifts or your talents or whatever. So it’s like, man, envy and comparison, if that’s unchecked on a local level and it’s unchecked on a global level, that will only lead to despair.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah. Yeah. It will.
David Zimmer: Burnout.
Bob Kauflin: It will.
David Zimmer: Identity crisis. I mean, fill in the blank.
Bob Kauflin: I’m looking for the place. There’s so often where Jesus just says to his disciples, look, I don’t want you to be like the Gentiles. It’s… I remember a message that John Payne gave at the Gathering of the Gospel conference. It shall not be so with you.
David Zimmer: Yes.
Bob Kauflin: And what is it that shall not be so? That we’re doing everything to lord it over people, that we’re doing everything to impress people, that we’re doing everything because we want them to think we’re really great. And I hear it is right here. It’s in Luke 22, verse 25. He said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them. Those in authority over them are called benefactors. So that’s the thing. They’re called benefactors.” Oh, look at you. You’re so gifted. You’re so generous. You’re so great. You’re so amazing. “But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest and the leader as one who serves. And then I am among you as one who serves.” I just want to pause here or camp out here just for a moment and say, in this world of social media, everybody’s platform has been expanded, potentially. There’s only one whose opinion matters. There’s only one. It’s not the people who show up in their Facebook feed. It’s not the people who follow you on Instagram. It’s not the people who follow you on TikTok or SubSec or whatever else you do. Those opinions ultimately don’t matter.
Bob Kauflin: It’s the Lord himself. We will all appear before the judgment seat of Christ to be judged for the things done in the body, whether good or bad. That’s very sobering. So do I do what I do to serve people, as Jesus was saying we should, or do I do it to look like a benefactor? It makes an eternal difference.
David Zimmer: Yeah, yeah. It does. It makes an eternal difference. And there’s a relief that comes when you don’t carry that burden any longer.
Bob Kauflin: Yes. Talk about that.
David Zimmer: When you’re carrying the burden of what other people think about you, and when your life is dedicated to building a platform that you think will make you happy or successful, you’re missing out on the, like you just said, the one opinion that matters, and you’re carrying a burden that’s too heavy to carry on your own.
Bob Kauflin: Yes.
David Zimmer: There’s relief that comes when you realize that Jesus himself did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.
Bob Kauflin: What a paradox.
David Zimmer: Yeah, yeah. And we’re not adding anything to what he’s done. We’re just simply repeating what he’s done.
David Zimmer: Bearing witness to it.
David Zimmer: So it’s not that the glory is going to us anyways. But we… Yeah, we’ve so twisted that.
Bob Kauflin: And if you don’t recognize that you’re just called to serve, not called to impress, it just creates, it can create all kinds of bad fruit in your heart, like grumbling and bitterness and just this weightedness. You talked about that, just this burden. Burnout that people experience because, I can’t do it, I can’t do it. That’s where Jesus’s words in Matthew 11:28 – 30, we should have these in our hearts and in our minds and in our souls. “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Where does that laboring and heavy ladenness come from? Well, a lot of times it comes from just trying to be the greatest in the room.
David Zimmer: Yeah, totally.
Bob Kauflin: “Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke,” you’re already carrying a yoke. Let me give you my yoke. “My yoke is easy. My burden is light.”
David Zimmer: Good.
Bob Kauflin: What a… Yeah. And then we were talking about this earlier. You mentioned 1 Corinthians 4:7. “Who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?” We’re such idiots.
David Zimmer: Very easy to boast in what we do.
Bob Kauflin: And then Paul says earlier, 1 Corinthians 4:1, “This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.” That’s what we are. We’re just stewards. We’re not innovators. We’re not creating this stuff.
Bob Kauflin: We’re just passing it on.
David Zimmer: Yeah, that’s good.
Bob Kauflin: And then you mentioned at the end of 1 Corinthians 4, we were talking earlier, about Paul’s example of…
David Zimmer: Yes.
Bob Kauflin: What were you saying about that?
David Zimmer: Well, he goes on, and it flies in the face of just our Western way of thinking. I love that he makes the paradox of, or the dichotomy of, you have nice clothes. We do not.
Bob Kauflin: You become rich. You become kings.
David Zimmer: Right.
Bob Kauflin: We’re not.
David Zimmer: Yeah.
Bob Kauflin: We’re revived, we’re blessed. We are the scum of the earth. We have become and are still like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things. And that’s the apostle talking.
David Zimmer: Right. But it’s because he so treasured Christ above it all. And that’s really this podcast is, we have hard conversations with ourself because we treasure so many things.
Bob Kauflin: Amen.
David Zimmer: Above Christ.
Bob Kauflin: Amen.
David Zimmer: Whether it’s our reputation or our… It’s people-pleasing or it’s our skills or gifts or whatever.
Bob Kauflin: And these don’t have to be hard conversations. If we’re pursuing humility, they’re not hard conversations. We want these conversations. But most of us aren’t pursuing.
David Zimmer: Yeah. Right.
Bob Kauflin: Okay, let’s move on to something a little less deep, perhaps, but still important. Do I pursue my role diligently? Romans 12:11 says, “do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.” So whatever role you play as you come in to… And then we’re thinking of musicians here primarily, but you come in maybe early, it’s like, do you just drag in, just kind of grumbling. Do you come in late? Do I value what God has given me to do? Do I know that others are depending on me?
David Zimmer: Yeah, that one’s great.
Bob Kauflin: Maybe lateness is your problem, just you’re always late. There are going to be reasons to be late, but maybe you’re always late. Do I realize that keeps other people from using their time wisely? Do I realize that my disorganization can tempt people to anxiety or affect the way things actually go in the meeting? So everybody’s ready but me. I don’t know. And again, there’s grace for those times when someone threw up in the morning and cat was hit by a car or whatever. There are those days, but if it’s just always that way, where are we again? Like, yeah, people are depending on you.
David Zimmer: Yeah, we tell my son that all the time. People are depending on you.
Bob Kauflin: Okay, great.
David Zimmer: We’re depending on you. I think that’s good. And I think if you’re the music leader at your church, you’re… Maybe your laziness or your lack of diligence is also… It’s not shepherding your team. And it’s not even shepherding your church. So I think that’s a category we should have, like, hey, this is an opportunity not only to serve, but to shepherd, to direct these people.
Bob Kauflin: Yes. That’s good.
David Zimmer: If you’re prepared, you can speak into your team. You can speak into the church.
Bob Kauflin: Yes, and if as a leader we’re not evaluating or following up, that can cause our team to stay in the same place for years.
David Zimmer: Oh yeah.
Bob Kauflin: And never grow.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah. I remember one time a vocalist came to me and said, hey, I just wonder what you thought about my singing. And I realized I didn’t even hear their singing. I had no idea. So that was just a good reminder for me. You need to be paying attention to what’s happening here. I came across this proverb every time I… Well, I come across it every time I read Proverbs. And it’s very sobering because we can think that in being lazy, lacking diligence, that we’re just kind of missing out on a few things. Just things aren’t going quite as well. Proverbs 18:9 says, “Whoever is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.” That’s just very sobering. If I’m not fulfilling my role, I’m the same as someone who’s actively seeking to undermine what people are doing. We don’t want to be like that.
David Zimmer: I know. The Proverbs are full of those. Another one I love is, what’s the Proverbs when you send a messenger, but they’re not diligent enough to deliver the message, and it’s like smoke to the eyes. It’s like vinegar to the teeth or whatever. It’s like, oh, driving me nuts. But it’s like, we don’t realize those even tiny decisions that we make. Where we put our preferences before others.
Bob Kauflin: Yeah, it’s not good. So, do I pursue my role diligently? Here’s another one. Do I seek… I’m sorry. Do I do what I do for eternal or financial gain? So, if you serve from church to church, and I don’t know how many people who do that would be listening to this podcast. I hope you are. But you aren’t planted in a body. You aren’t being used in the way God wants to use you. So, all the metaphors that God uses for the church in the New Testament imply connection, body, building, field, temple, spiritual house. You don’t want bricks like popping in and out of your house, out of your walls. You want them there. You don’t want parts of your body just kind of jumping off and joining other parts of other bodies. You want them there. If no one can depend on us, if we’re just going from week to week to different churches, there’s no accountability, and we’re not contributing to the life of the church. A meeting, yes, but not the church. That’s if you’re being paid for that. Now, if you’re being paid for a position in a church that you wouldn’t otherwise be at, you may be putting financial gain before eternal gain. You may be looking at what you can gain materially versus what you can gain spiritually. Those are getting confused.
David Zimmer: That’s huge.
Bob Kauflin: It is huge. I mean, 1 Peter 5:2, he’s talking to pastors, but this could apply to musicians. “Shepherd the flock of God as it is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you, not for shameful gain, but eagerly.” Well, what’s shameful gain? Well, I think one way we could describe it is to say that it’s, I want to earn money here, even though I wouldn’t bring my family here. I want to earn money here, even though I don’t feel I can really grow here. It’s kind of a gig. Yeah, that’s a hard question. But if you want to glorify Christ with your life, that’s one you’re willing to answer. And it’s not that there aren’t seasons where you’re making a transition and you realize, ah, I probably need to go somewhere else. I need to support my family. But that should be your priority. The eternal gain, the spiritual gain, not just financial.
David Zimmer: Yeah, and it would be better to be poor and prioritize the spiritual health and well-being of your soul and your family than it would be to be rich and that lacking.
Bob Kauflin: Well said. Next question. Am I hiding behind production or using it to magnify Christ? We’ve done a podcast on technology.
David Zimmer: Yeah, yeah.
Bob Kauflin: And technology is a gift from God, I think. We’re using it right here. Computers, iPads, microphones. How much time… Here’s where I flesh that out. How much time do I spend tending to technical details versus actually preparing my heart? What’s the balance? Would you say it’s 50-50, 80-20, 98-2? Technology can do wonderful things. It can make things clearer, more interesting, more dynamic, more impacting, more beautiful. But this is where I think we get so quickly off track. It can also make the truth of the gospel harder to notice by being distracting or overwhelming, whatever aids we might use, moving visuals behind lyrics. I’m sure someone listening to this says, that’s what we do at our church. It doesn’t bother me at all. Great, I can’t speak to that. But I do ask the question, is that the most helpful thing? Is that how people for thousands of years have seen the written word? I need something moving behind it to make it really interesting. In that case, I think you’re saying, the words aren’t that interesting, so I need something behind them that’s more interesting.
David Zimmer: And I think it’s also catering, potentially, catering to our need for things to be always moving, changing.
Bob Kauflin: Desire. Yeah, I think it’s a desire. Technology can make the sufficiency of God’s word more difficult to grasp or believe. In other words, when the words aren’t being projected on there as tall as a person, you’ll go, go, go. You see at some conferences, what about when they’re just sitting still on the page your Bible? Are they as impacting? Well, yeah, they are. If it’s the word of God, it is. Technology can make us more dependent on human devices to move people’s hearts in a Godward direction. What if the power goes out? It doesn’t mean we can’t use technology in a God-honoring, Christ-exalting way, but God never intends it to be something we hide behind, something we’re overly dependent on, or use as the only or primary standard for effective ministry.
Bob Kauflin: I’ve seen videos recently of behind the scenes at churches and how they’re calling the video shots, and I think, wow, wow. This is the gathering of the church, and I just wonder how challenging it can be for the people running the cameras and people calling the shots and doing the… To hear and participate in what’s going on. Because it is the gathering of God’s people for the representation of the gospel, for the benefit of our hearts, the engagement with His Spirit, and these are just good questions to ask.
David Zimmer: Yeah, definitely.
Bob Kauflin: Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2, and this would be kind of similar to our understanding of technology. In Paul’s day, they had these orators who were excellent at their elocution, the way they spoke, and they traveled around. The way they spoke is what drew crowds. So he says, “When I came to you, brothers, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom.” That’s what he’s referring to. “For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom.” Again, that’s what he’s referring to. But in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men or the talents of men or the technologies of men or the devices of men, but in the power of God. It’s not that they’re absolutely contradictory, but which are we more dependent on? And do we ever hide behind production because we’re so afraid of just being seen for who we are and what we are?
David Zimmer: Yeah, good.
Bob Kauflin: Lastly, am I mailing it in or marveling at grace? Oh, man. I think one of the greatest temptations for those who are in a leadership position in the church, musically especially, but anyway, is to handle the holy things of God in an unholy way. To handle sacred things in a mundane way. So we sing these lyrics every Sunday. What is our hope in life and death? Christ alone. What gift of grace is Jesus my Redeemer? There is no more for heaven now to give. Hallelujah, all I have is Christ. Hallelujah, Jesus is my life. We can sing all those words with absolutely zero emotional connection without being affected. We’re just thinking, the chord’s right, drum’s sounding good, technology great, everything’s running along smoothly, what’s after this? It’s not even thinking about it.
Bob Kauflin: How can we do that? I do it. So that’s why I’m always asking this question. Am I mailing it in or am I marveling at grace? Am I thinking how glorious Christ is? So just a few scriptures. Psalm 84:10. “A day in your courts is better than 1,000 elsewhere. I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of wickedness.” A doorkeeper in the Lord’s house is not a place of, a low place. It’s the Lord’s house. If you’re a doorkeeper, that’s a big deal. But he’s saying, I would rather be on the outskirts of what the Lord’s doing than right in the center of what the wicked are doing.
Bob Kauflin: Do we have that kind of gratefulness and marveling every time we gather? Are we pressing for that? Luke 10:19-20. After the disciples came back from their first missionary journey where they’re going out and talking about who Jesus is and demons are submitting to them and they’re healing people and all that kind of stuff. He says, “Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing shall hurt you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” I mean, every Sunday. Things may not go the way we planned. It may not be. We may not have the band we wish we did. Projection might go down. We might mess up some transitions. But you know what? Your name’s written in heaven. Your name’s written in the book of life.
David Zimmer: That’s amazing.
Bob Kauflin: And… It is amazing. And then lastly, Acts 20:24. “I do not account my life of any value, nor is it precious to myself. For only I may finish my course in the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.” That’s what we get to do every week. Testify to the gospel of the grace of God. This grace that has caused the Son of God to take on our flesh, to assume our nature, to live a perfect life for 33 years so that He could bear our sins, the punishment for all that we’ve done wrong, be raised by His Father from the dead, ascend to His Father’s right hand where He intercedes and reigns and is one day coming back for the Bride He redeemed. That is amazing news. That’s what we get to sing about, talk about, pray about, hear about every Sunday. And we can’t mail that in! We cannot mail that in. Well, we can, but we don’t want to! So, let’s ask that hard question of ourselves.
David Zimmer: Right, we don’t want to, especially… And here’s the good news, especially in this Acts 20:24 passage. If you want your life to have value, it is in the grace of God. If you want your life to be precious, it is precious in God. And that is amazing, freeing, wonderful news. That’s our identity, that we are in Christ. And that makes what we do a joy.
Bob Kauflin: Amen.
David Zimmer: Not a burden.
Bob Kauflin: And we can ask all these questions without fear. Because we know Jesus has covered all our sins through His blood, through His death for us on the cross, as our substitute. We know that He has poured out His Holy Spirit into our hearts, who has shed a broadening in our hearts the love of God, and also given us power to change. Christ lives in us. We can change. We don’t have to live with these kinds of sinful attitudes and perspectives for the rest of our lives. They can continually be… We can put them off, put on the attitudes that are contained in Christ Himself, which is a miracle and, boy, just something to thank God for.
David Zimmer: Yeah, it is.
Bob Kauflin: So, we pray this has been encouragement to you. Thank you again for serving in your church. And may we do it in the name of the Lord Jesus, for the glory of God, for the good of His people, and for our joy. We pray this has been a means to that end. Thanks for joining us.
David Zimmer: Thanks.
